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Off Topic Anything not relating to politics. A good place to cool off from all the debating.

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Old 01-05-2008, 05:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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And do not believe that gay marriage, as equated with straight marriage is of generational benefit.
I guess I see your point.

Gay families shouldn't be given the same protections under the law as straight families.

I mean - why should they?

They're just queers.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
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Old 01-05-2008, 06:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I guess I see your point.

...

They're just queers.
Oh Tristan, please. I do not ever even a little think of gay people as queers. Nor should you. Or anyone else.

And you do know that is what I am saying.

I do believe that two people of the same sex that wish to commit to a lifetime relationship ought to have rights. Be afforded recognition for their joint effort at living and providing together. And I do believe that they ought to be respected. And civil unions would accomplish that.

But marriage is when two become one. And that involves certain anatomical design that not only makes a fitting of two as one, but renders production from the union. And it is a picture, most beautiful.

I am not saying at all that gay people do not know true love, or for that matter, beautiful love. When shared in a monogamous relationship. But I am saying that it is not marriage, as the foundation of the continuation of humanity has known or could know and grow and be for all of time.

That is all I am saying. Do not be hurt. What I share is not, nor ever was, meant to hurt or offend you or anyone else. I only speak my views and they are, even now, as always, being modified by the more I learn and think about.

OhDear
Old 01-05-2008, 06:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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And you do know that is what I am saying.
I know only what you wrote.

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And civil unions would accomplish that.
Perhaps you might speak to people who live in "Civil Union States" and ask THEM if civil unions have accomplished that. Obviously, your idea of legal protection and mine are very different however. You feel that gay families should be entitled to whatever crumbs are thrown their way (as evidenced by the support of this wonderful Civil Union Separate and Unequal idea) - and I disagree.

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But marriage is when two become one. And that involves certain anatomical design that not only makes a fitting of two as one, but renders production from the union. And it is a picture, most beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need your fucking legalized. Blame your puritan ancestors. Boring conversation and pointless.

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But I am saying that it is not marriage, as the foundation of the continuation of humanity has known or could know and grow and be for all of time.
Is that a quote from Jonathon Livingston Seagull? It makes no sense at all. I know that you are being all squishy and warm and sensitive - but it's absolutely meaningless.

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Do not be hurt. What I share is not, nor ever was, meant to hurt or offend you or anyone else. I only speak my views and they are, even now, as always, being modified by the more I learn and think about.
Don't flatter yourself - - not only are you not important enough to "hurt" me - but you aren't really changing anything you've ever said - you're just couching it in terms now that sucks up to the homophobic bigots. Well - water does seek its own level. And my opinion of others, as always, is modified by the more I learn and think about what they've written. I've gone from liking you, to being disappointed by you, to getting angry at you, to realizing that I had overestimated you before. As I have said before, I don't despise you and hold you in the same contempt I hold garysher - but then, he's had over six years to garner my repulsion. I'm sure in time....

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 01-05-2008, 07:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I guess I see your point.

Gay families shouldn't be given the same protections under the law as straight families.

I mean - why should they?

They're just queers.
What's a "gay family"?
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Doggone it darn right you betcha bless your heart maverick
Old 01-05-2008, 07:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't despise you and hold you in the same contempt I hold garysher - but then, he's had over six years to garner my repulsion.

oh you bitch!!
[IMG][/IMG]

Doggone it darn right you betcha bless your heart maverick
Old 01-05-2008, 07:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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But marriage is when two become one. And that involves certain anatomical design that not only makes a fitting of two as one, but renders production from the union. And it is a picture, most beautiful.

That is an incredibly shallow interpretation of two becoming one.

The oneness of marriage is about a oneness of minds, of hearts and of spirits. It has nothing to do with anatomy or "production" -- whatever that means.
Right now America spends $700 billion every year on foreign oil. That's our money going overseas when it could be staying here. We have to stop this.
That's why I support the Pickens Plan. Check out the website at www.pickensplan.com. If you like what you see, please join me as a Pickens Plan supporter.

Old 01-05-2008, 08:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Tristan thought I needed this???

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need your fucking legalized. Blame your puritan ancestors. Boring conversation and pointless.
Here is my belief. I do not believe marriage should be a legalized relationship at all. I believe marriage ought to be entered into by two who choose to be a union for the dividing of the work and the multiplying of life itself. And that is a desire that is inspired of committed love.

I believe even a straight couple ought to only have civil unions to protect the financial accumulation and property they acquire together.

I believe marriage ought to be something entered into by one's heart and spirit. And that the government cannot even touch.

Therefore, if two gay people wish to call their civil union a marriage, so be it.

But for the defining of marriage, I would believe it is to be limited to the traditions and boundaries that demonstrate the intent of the original design of a man and a woman.

If you are honest with yourself Tristan, you know darned well that two gay men that want to make sure their accumulated wealth goes to one another, as in the event of the death of one...there are any number of easy legal ways to insure exactly that.

OhDear
Old 01-05-2008, 08:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos View Post

That is an incredibly shallow interpretation of two becoming one.

The oneness of marriage is about a oneness of minds, of hearts and of spirits. It has nothing to do with anatomy or "production" -- whatever that means.
CF,

Of course not. I am not limiting that oneness to sex, even though I am referencing heterosexual sex. Sex ought to only ever be the result of that aforementioned oneness. Of minds, hearts, spirits...

But the design if you consider it, is more profound than simply the sex act. And we all can learn something about completion by recognizing what God wants us to know of love. Of life. Of unity. With one another. With Him.

OhDear
Old 01-05-2008, 08:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
CF,

Of course not. I am not limiting that oneness to sex, even though I am referencing heterosexual sex. Sex ought to only ever be the result of that aforementioned oneness. Of minds, hearts, spirits...

But the design if you consider it, is more profound than simply the sex act. And we all can learn something about completion by recognizing what God wants us to know of love. Of life. Of unity. With one another. With Him.

OhDear
What I hear you saying, in your oh so polite way, is that my relationship is somehow less than a heterosexual relationship.

Too bad. It seems that I overestimated you.
Right now America spends $700 billion every year on foreign oil. That's our money going overseas when it could be staying here. We have to stop this.
That's why I support the Pickens Plan. Check out the website at www.pickensplan.com. If you like what you see, please join me as a Pickens Plan supporter.

Old 01-05-2008, 08:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos View Post
What I hear you saying, in your oh so polite way, is that my relationship is somehow less than a heterosexual relationship.

Too bad. It seems that I overestimated you.
No CF. YOU may well have overestimated me. I see a difference between equal rights and viewing both relationships as the same.

And I am not talking about YOUR relationship. It is personal to you, I understand that. I respect your relationship. I accept you, embrace you for who you are.

No one said LESS til you did. But I am saying that the social dynamics are so very different in a gay union than in a straight one. And it took the straight ones from the beginning of life to propagate the lives that are. And some of those lives that are, are gay. Those lives are valuable and need to be accepted, respected and given rights. But to count as same is unrealistic.

And these are thoughts that I am having at this time. I am not done thinking though.

OhDear
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