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Philosophy Discuss and debate the philosophies of religion, issues of faith, free will and determinism, and theories of knowledge.

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Old 12-01-2007, 09:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
I think the "better world for our species through world cooperation" is a delusion to itself. There are so many different mindsets that I seriously doubt that you will ever get that kind of cooperation. A rich country will not want to lower it's own standard of living to help a dirt poor country up. A poor underdeveloped nation will always be jealous of the educated and technologically advanced one. And all the conflicts that arise from different cultures, religions, and races. Not to mention some regions are rich is different things from fertile lands to oil to diamonds. World cooperation from all humans???? Not a chance.
Stating present conditions doesn't mean it won't, or isn't getting better. Comparatively, despite all the scare mongering, people are much less violent than they were before.

If there's anything more natural than competition, it's evolution. It's my belief that a better system isn't only possible but inevitable. I'm not talking utopia, but history certainly tells us a pattern, and this pattern is leading us to more complex, more efficient, and better systems. I believe that self-interest as a driving force of human civilization (capitalism) will be rendered ineffective.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 12-01-2007, 10:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think the next major event for humans in the foreseeable future is the depletion of fossil fuels. That's gonna cause a big disruption in the world economy and may lead to some instability.
I don't think we are less violent than before. But nuclear weapons are an excellent deterrent, and most countries have powerful friends that deter invasion.
Old 12-01-2007, 10:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think the next major event for humans in the foreseeable future is the depletion of fossil fuels. That's gonna cause a big disruption in the world economy and may lead to some instability.
On the contrary, I think a crisis is an opportunity; a defining moment if you will, for the betterment of our society as a whole. Especially in this circumstance, it would galvanize the economy just as past issues required unity, galvanization, and innovation (world war is a good example). We've overcome larger crises than the depletion of fossil fuels.

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I don't think we are less violent than before. But nuclear weapons are an excellent deterrent, and most countries have powerful friends that deter invasion.
I believe this video will be enlightening to you:
TED | Talks | Steven Pinker: A brief history of violence (video)
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 12-01-2007, 11:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Something Else to Ponder:
On Thanksgiving Day, I attended a "mini" family reunion. I met up with a cousin that I had not seen in many years; and it turns out that her son is attending Geogetown University as a graduate student in theology. After introducing me to him; I discovered that he definitely has the family trait for intense discussion. He posed the following query, which I admit still has me thinking long and hard:
If we accept that man (humans) are the dominant species of the animal kingdom; why is it that we are the only species that actively plan( and create tools for) our own extinction?
I thought this question might give our thought processes an excercise. He called me this morning and wanted to know how I felt. I'm still pondering over this myself-how do you feel?
Firstly I would question the accuracy of the statement. It's a leading question merely based on an unproven assumption. Who says we are actively planning for our own extinction? What evidence is there to substantiate that?

The existence of nuclear weapons doesn't guarantee our extinction, or even prove that we have that capability. In fact many people would argue that the existence of nuclear weapons, and the reality of Mutually Assured Destruction, has helped prevent a world war since 1945

Secondly, many other members of the animal kingdom kill and eat each other on a regular basis just to survive, and without a second thought about extinction. Despite our many flaws, mankind is vastly superior to any other species and will always remain so.
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Doggone it darn right you betcha bless your heart maverick
Old 12-02-2007, 01:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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fxashun wrote:
Quote:
I think the "better world for our species through world cooperation" is a delusion to itself. There are so many different mindsets that I seriously doubt that you will ever get that kind of cooperation. A rich country will not want to lower it's own standard of living to help a dirt poor country up.
I posted this on a message board awhile back:
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From the New York Times: "Faced with the prospect of a government unable to pay its bills, the Senate voted on Wednesday to raise the federal debt limit by $800 billion. Though an increase in the debt ceiling was never in doubt, Republican leaders in both houses of Congress postponed action on it last month, until after the elections, to deprive Democrats of a chance to accuse them of fiscal irresponsibility. The bill, if approved by the House in a vote expected on Thursday, would authorize the third big increase in the federal borrowing since President Bush took office in 2001. Federal debt has ballooned by $1.4 trillion over the past four years, to $7.4 trillion, and the new ceiling would allow borrowing to reach $8.2 trillion. With no end in sight to the huge annual budget deficits, which hit a record of $412 billion this year, lawmakers predicted on Wednesday that the new ceiling would probably have to be raised again in about a year."

Also: "The world's wealthiest countries agreed on Tuesday to increase aid to the world's poorest nations by raising their contributions to the World Bank's international development program to $34 billion from $23 billion. ...The United States will provide $950 million this year and about the same amount over the next two years."

If the United States is so far in debt, how could it be considered to be a wealthy nation? President Bush said: "We will not deny, we will not ignore, we will not pass along our problems to other Congresses, to other presidents and other generations." So, who does he think is going to pay for all this debt? We all know that our posterity will be bearing the brunt of the costs. It will bear upon our children, and our children's children, and our children's children's children, and...

Also from the New York Times: "The world's wealthiest nations formally agreed Saturday to cancel at least $40 billion of debt owed to international agencies by the world's poorest lands, most of them in Africa."

So, we, in this generation, are effectively borrowing money to give away, payment of which is the burden of our posterity.
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Also, at our expense, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) is actively promoting business closing down in this country and re-establishing in the lesser developed countries, receiving not only tax benefits, but having a workforce pay of around 50¢ per hour rather than paying United States pay scales. Our standard of living is being lowered as a result.
Old 12-02-2007, 02:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I answered him by e-mail a little while ago. My answer was that I think humans occupy both the top rung on the ladder in the animal kingdom-because of our ability to create and use technology; and the bottom rung also because we allow ourselves to respond (or react) to stimuli by emotion. I can think of no other animal cursed with this affliction.
Old 12-02-2007, 03:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Firstly I would question the accuracy of the statement. It's a leading question merely based on an unproven assumption. Who says we are actively planning for our own extinction? What evidence is there to substantiate that?

The existence of nuclear weapons doesn't guarantee our extinction, or even prove that we have that capability. In fact many people would argue that the existence of nuclear weapons, and the reality of Mutually Assured Destruction, has helped prevent a world war since 1945

Secondly, many other members of the animal kingdom kill and eat each other on a regular basis just to survive, and without a second thought about extinction. Despite our many flaws, mankind is vastly superior to any other species and will always remain so.
You may be right; Gary, but the original ideas behind the developement of those nuclear weapons was (and still is) to eradicate our own species. Granted, we are smart enough to have created things like this to make it efficient. But does that really make us so smart?
You are correct in that many other animals kill each other for food. But it is only humans that create tools to accomplish the death of others, and actively plan for it. Why is that? I think we are cursed with a trait called emotion that we do not control, that we think (even allow ourselves to believe) that this is justification for the killing of others. Other animals do kill each other for food; but we kill for many other reasons besides this.
Old 12-02-2007, 08:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyjoe View Post
I answered him by e-mail a little while ago. My answer was that I think humans occupy both the top rung on the ladder in the animal kingdom-because of our ability to create and use technology; and the bottom rung also because we allow ourselves to respond (or react) to stimuli by emotion. I can think of no other animal cursed with this affliction.
I'd rubber stamp this statement.
Old 12-02-2007, 08:27 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyjoe View Post
I answered him by e-mail a little while ago. My answer was that I think humans occupy both the top rung on the ladder in the animal kingdom-because of our ability to create and use technology; and the bottom rung also because we allow ourselves to respond (or react) to stimuli by emotion. I can think of no other animal cursed with this affliction.
Emotions are ot a curse, Joe!!! Heck with them we can both appreciate and love. Sure emotions give a heart its humanity. Its tenderness and compassion.

Oh my yes, emotions can be a way to feel the negativity too of our condition.

Still, tis a gift most profound. No curse.

OhDear
Old 12-02-2007, 08:34 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Emotions are ot a curse, Joe!!! Heck with them we can both appreciate and love. Sure emotions give a heart its humanity. Its tenderness and compassion.

Oh my yes, emotions can be a way to feel the negativity too of our condition.

Still, tis a gift most profound. No curse.

OhDear
I guess it depends on perspective. All good things have a bed aspect. Water is a necessity of life, but you drown or drink yourself to death.

It's the difference between making love with someone you love you being kidnapped and raped in a dark alley.
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