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Philosophy Discuss and debate the philosophies of religion, issues of faith, free will and determinism, and theories of knowledge.

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Old 12-02-2007, 08:41 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
I guess it depends on perspective. All good things have a bed aspect. Water is a necessity of life, but you drown or drink yourself to death.

It's the difference between making love with someone you love you being kidnapped and raped in a dark alley.
True. But the thing is, though rape is all too real a possibility. Most people, even those who have been raped will go on to say that they are glad for the way we are created to know and express love through the act of sex.

Or like me, I have met some real schmucks online, and yet, here I am!
Cos I ain't gonna let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch...

Same thing with emotions. And even moreover, with emotions...feeling the negative is still a life experience and in the totality of anyone's life, being able to know those feelings, sense that pain, it is actually a gift. It is being ALIVE!

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Old 12-02-2007, 09:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm happy I have feelings and life and all that. But then again, torture takes the wonderful ability to feel and uses it against us.
Our wonderful ability to love can be bastardized by someone looking to take advantage of it.
I'm glad I have the ability to love...until that bitch [insert name here] used it to get me to give her money and buy her a car then left.

Being alive is a great thing...and is a gift. But when you are enslaved, disabled, insanely poor, imprisoned, or otherwise impaired but with full emotional faculties, it can turn out to a "living hell".
Old 12-02-2007, 12:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyjoe View Post
I answered him by e-mail a little while ago. My answer was that I think humans occupy both the top rung on the ladder in the animal kingdom-because of our ability to create and use technology; and the bottom rung also because we allow ourselves to respond (or react) to stimuli by emotion. I can think of no other animal cursed with this affliction.
Actually, nonhuman animals are driven by emotion. The question seems to presuppose that humans are naturally self destructive while nonhuman animals are peaceful. Animals in many regards tear themselves apart. What sets us apart from them is our intelligence, and incidentally this intelligence simultaneously provides us with a means to develop ever more sophisticated means of killing each other, and as well as an avenue for species-wide altruism. Though, it may be argued that complete selflessness is one of the most irrational behaviors of them all.

Comparatively, humans are actually one of the most peaceful species in the animal kingdom. I think there is a lot of scare mongering which contributed to the ideology behind the question posed.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Last edited by Katczinsky; 12-02-2007 at 12:21 PM.
Old 12-02-2007, 12:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Firstly I would question the accuracy of the statement. It's a leading question merely based on an unproven assumption. Who says we are actively planning for our own extinction? What evidence is there to substantiate that?

The existence of nuclear weapons doesn't guarantee our extinction, or even prove that we have that capability. In fact many people would argue that the existence of nuclear weapons, and the reality of Mutually Assured Destruction, has helped prevent a world war since 1945

Secondly, many other members of the animal kingdom kill and eat each other on a regular basis just to survive, and without a second thought about extinction. Despite our many flaws, mankind is vastly superior to any other species and will always remain so.
I think we actually agree on something here, gary.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 12-02-2007, 02:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Actually, nonhuman animals are driven by emotion. The question seems to presuppose that humans are naturally self destructive while nonhuman animals are peaceful. Animals in many regards tear themselves apart. What sets us apart from them is our intelligence, and incidentally this intelligence simultaneously provides us with a means to develop ever more sophisticated means of killing each other, and as well as an avenue for species-wide altruism. Though, it may be argued that complete selflessness is one of the most irrational behaviors of them all.

Comparatively, humans are actually one of the most peaceful species in the animal kingdom. I think there is a lot of scare mongering which contributed to the ideology behind the question posed.
The question was originally posed by the professor of my cousin's theology course; so I cannot speak as to whether he was "scare-mongering" or not. Now, I do agree with this post of yours, as I believe that our intelligence does place us far ahead of other animals. I just also believe that our inability to control this intelligence; and constanly using it for such ends as planning the death of other humans that sets us backward. That is what I meant earlier about emotion.
When you see a program such as Animal Planet and see a female lioness on the hunt and her killing of an antelope or other animal, it is done for one reason only in my opinion: food. And the lioness does not kill another lioness here.
Explain the next "murder" you read about". Was it done for food? Yes, you could argue that it was commited to enable one better oppotunity in life to obtain such. But what about the many random murders each day? Are all of these done in the name of food or survival? Why is it that we don't use our intelligence towards not having to resort to these methods more?
I do have to admit (and I will tell my cousin so) that the question itself is a head-scratcher. I see it in the class of something that has no definitive right or wrong answer. But, as I'm told; Theology itself can be described in this manner.
Old 12-02-2007, 05:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttyjoe View Post
You may be right; Gary, but the original ideas behind the developement of those nuclear weapons was (and still is) to eradicate our own species.

What evidence do you have for saying that?




You are correct in that many other animals kill each other for food. But it is only humans that create tools to accomplish the death of others, and actively plan for it. Why is that? I think we are cursed with a trait called emotion that we do not control, that we think (even allow ourselves to believe) that this is justification for the killing of others. Other animals do kill each other for food; but we kill for many other reasons besides this.
Other animals also kill for no apparent reason apart from food or defence.

No surprise that, when he sets his mind to it, Man is far better at killing than any dumb animal!
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:31 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
I think we actually agree on something here, gary.

Statistically it had to happen sooner or later.

Maybe I need to re-think my position on this topic.................
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post

Statistically it had to happen sooner or later.

Maybe I need to re-think my position on this topic.................
That's usually my first inclination as well. LOL.
Old 12-02-2007, 07:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
I think we actually agree on something here, gary.
I also agree with a portion of what Gary has said. I think think is also a presupposing question in it's own way. I disagree with the professor in his use of the words "plan" or "planning in this question. There is no evidence of this that I can see or am aware of.
The developement of nuclear weapons factor only is evidence of our intelligence, to me. But they were designed to kill humans; just that it could be done more efficiently. That is the point that I will agree with the professor on. Okay, we know that we are more intelligent. But does killing each other efficiently make us smarter?
Old 12-03-2007, 06:45 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I shall reword the question so that it is what I think the question means and which I am trying to answer.

If we accept that humans have dominant power over all other species; why is it that we are the only species that actively plan our own death?

If that is what the questioner means then obviously we are the only species that plans or own death because we are the only species that knows we humans are all mortal, the first part of the question is of no consequence.
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