Spitzer's $4,000 call-girl revealed

garysher · 04-02-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Nutty, I don't think the CEO and the prostitute are comparable, so I'm not sure how to respond to that. Sounds like the CEO is guilty of sexual harrassment though.

See there is another example of your double standard. If the man has something the woman wants, and he obtains sexual favours from her in exchange, you label that "sexual harassment".

But when the tables are turned you say:

"Why can't she sell sex if it isn't against her morality? That is called persuing liberty, and is protected under the Constitution. No one forces anyone to buy something or engage in behavior they find immoral"

See the hypocrisy yet??

And Gary, again, there are male prostitutes as well as female. And I take note of how you worded your statement above, that I applaud the abuse of men by women, but I rail against the ALLEGED abuse of women, by men. As I said, it is you who are showing your true colors with those kinds of words. If you are unable to appreciate women's issues in a truthful, historical sense, then I'm just wasting time thinking that you are capable of grasping reality.

It all depends on how you want to argue the facts.

Women can say that they were subjugated and abused by men in return for sex and bearing their children.

Men can say that women abused men by standing back and letting them become the providers, the warriors, the hunters and killers, whilst women were free to stay home in the warm, look after the children and fix their hair.

Clearly you have a very biased outlook toward the women's point of view in these matters.

waitingtables · 04-02-2008, 06:08 PM

You are beyond reason or logic. Certainly handing out promotions based on sexual favors is nowhere in the same ballpark as prostitution. Seriously. And I have never stated that women were abused by men in return for sex and bearing children. Men have treated women as economic and sexual slaves throughout most of history. All you need to do is read your bible and you'll see a great many examples of it. But there is no way that you don't know this, you cannot be that ignorant. And women have never stood back and let men be the providers, we had no choice in the matter for a great many years. And even in prehistory, it was due to the woman's foraging and gathering skills that humans survived, hunting was not as beneficial as some would think. Once again Gary, try reading some actual history and you might be surprised. And if you still think the same way, then I truly feel sorry for you.

garysher · 04-02-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

You are beyond reason or logic.

Not at all. I am the embodiment of reason and logic and use it prodigiously in all my posts

Certainly handing out promotions based on sexual favors is nowhere in the same ballpark as prostitution. Seriously.

Surely both are examples of trading a skill or capability for an agreed return, whether it be monetary or otherwise.

Why is it sexual harassment for a man but a justifiable means of earning a living for a woman?

Why are you so biased against men?

And I have never stated that women were abused by men in return for sex and bearing children. Men have treated women as economic and sexual slaves throughout most of history.

And women have treated men as protectors and providers.

All you need to do is read your bible and you'll see a great many examples of it. But there is no way that you don't know this, you cannot be that ignorant. And women have never stood back and let men be the providers, we had no choice in the matter for a great many years.

If men and women are equal how come you had no choice?

And even in prehistory, it was due to the woman's foraging and gathering skills that humans survived, hunting was not as beneficial as some would think. Once again Gary, try reading some actual history and you might be surprised. And if you still think the same way, then I truly feel sorry for you.

No need to feel sorry for me, I enjoy helping you to broaden your outlook.

Perhaps you can point me to this "actual history".

waitingtables · 04-03-2008, 06:59 AM

I believe that sexual harassment is also called extortion. And that prostitution is simply one person seeling something (supply) to one who wants to buy it (demand).

Quote:

are comparable in that one party uses their advantage to obtain what they want from the other party. Also, when those non-law-abiding people pay for sex; they are purchasing it from another non-law-abiding person whom is selling it.
I think this is becoming a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" discussions; WT. This is why I make no distinction other than both parties should be prosecuted; because both parties broke the law!

One uses threats and intimidation and the other is providing a service. And this time Spitzer is being prosecuted, but generally it is the prostitute who is prosecuted or fined.

Quote:

Surely both are examples of trading a skill or capability for an agreed return, whether it be monetary or otherwise.

And Gary, you are beyond reason or logic, thank you. As I said, extortion and threats are not the same as selling a service.
What choice have most women in previous times had but to see men as a protector and provider when she went from being property of her father to the property of her husband. She couldn't support herslf or her kids on her own, because that is how the system was set up. If you can't find that type of history on your own, you couldn't possibly be a bright as you think you are.

waitingtables · 04-03-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Perhaps you can point me to this "actual history".

A good start might be a book titled, The Chalice and the Blade, Our History, Our Future, by Riane Eisler. Included in that book is a quite impressive bibliography of books available for further studies, if you please.

nuttyjoe · 04-03-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

I believe that sexual harassment is also called extortion. And that prostitution is simply one person seeling something (supply) to one who wants to buy it (demand).

One uses threats and intimidation and the other is providing a service. And this time Spitzer is being prosecuted, but generally it is the prostitute who is prosecuted or fined.

And Gary, you are beyond reason or logic, thank you. As I said, extortion and threats are not the same as selling a service.
What choice have most women in previous times had but to see men as a protector and provider when she went from being property of her father to the property of her husband. She couldn't support herslf or her kids on her own, because that is how the system was set up. If you can't find that type of history on your own, you couldn't possibly be a bright as you think you are.

That's where we disagree; WT. Not all sexual harassment cases are borne in extortion. The man who might be in that position actually is just trading a promotion or a raise to feed his ego; or his misbegotten sexual gratification. It is still illegal! You have stated that there are places in Nevada where prostitution in legal. You are correct. But that is a locality issue much like Montana not having a speed limit. If Ms. Dupree (or any other woman) really wanted to pursue this line of work; why did she not even make the effort to move to Nevada where this would be legal? Did a man or a law prevent her from doing so?
I've agreed with your views towards the treatment and limited choices of women in previous times. But those days are long gone, and so is that tired excuse being used today. Women undoubtedly have much more opportunity today that they never had before. Like many Blacks whom use their tired excuse to explain shortcoming in life; that dog don't bark anymore!

garysher · 04-03-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

A good start might be a book titled, The Chalice and the Blade, Our History, Our Future, by Riane Eisler. Included in that book is a quite impressive bibliography of books available for further studies, if you please.

Is this Riane Eisler a woman?

garysher · 04-03-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

And Gary, you are beyond reason or logic, thank you. As I said, extortion and threats are not the same as selling a service.

How convenient.

If a woman is offered a promotion, or a part in a movie, in exchange for sexual favours, she can always choose to refuse. Just as a man can refuse the advances of a prostitute.

The two are entirely analogous.

What choice have most women in previous times had but to see men as a protector and provider when she went from being property of her father to the property of her husband.

What choice did a man have? Could he choose to send his wife out to work whilst he stayed home, played with the children and cooked dinner?

waitingtables · 04-04-2008, 11:26 AM

Yes, Riane Eisler is a woman, and she is also an author and scholar. Women have written many books, do you only read male authors or something? I won't refute you or nutty anymore on the issue of the CEO vs. a prostitute, because it seems you can't comprehend how they are in fact completely different situations. And maybe men in previous times didn't have much of a variety of choices in life either, but he could choose his career at the very least. And if he had a problem with the system, he had recourse to the law or the courts, where women didn't. If you are being facetious about this argument, that is one thing, but if you really believe your bull, I'm more afraid for our society then ever.

garysher · 04-04-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Yes, Riane Eisler is a woman, and she is also an author and scholar. Women have written many books, do you only read male authors or something?

Nope but a woman writing a book about what a bad deal women have may be open to bias. Or to paraphrase Mandy Rice Davies "She would say that wouldn't she".

I won't refute you or nutty anymore on the issue of the CEO vs. a prostitute, because it seems you can't comprehend how they are in fact completely different situations.

It seems you are unable to explain why you think that to be the case, and that you can't comprehend that prostitution is a form of sexual harassment of men by women, motivated by greed and laziness

And maybe men in previous times didn't have much of a variety of choices in life either, but he could choose his career at the very least. And if he had a problem with the system, he had recourse to the law or the courts, where women didn't. If you are being facetious about this argument, that is one thing, but if you really believe your bull, I'm more afraid for our society then ever.

Not facetious but not entirely balanced either.

I agree that women did not have equality in a legal sense until fairly recently, but I also think that could be construed as advantageous to their situation.

In fact men didn't have many choices either. The concept of a stay-at-home "Mr Mum" is also very recent, and is still very unusual, and regarded as not very "manly" by most people.

Even though sexual equality exists under the law it is still predominantly men who are the principle bread winners.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, men tend to get the job done without stopping to whine about who washes the dishes.