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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 01-17-2008, 03:51 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
I was just reading what Hev wrote and now you too, Gary. And I am gonna say this: both of you are right in a way.

Faith is NOT a lie. I do not believe Hev ever meant that it is.

But when someone whose sole authority to say they "know" someone or "know" something is faith, they cannot tell others or use faith as a "reason" to legislate laws and such.

The laws and establishment of a people as a nation must be founded on factual and evidential substance.

OhDear
The United States is founded on abstract concepts like freedom, individual liberty, equality and democracy, none of which are factual or can be substantiated.

They all require a step of faith.

Should we say that anyone who doesn't believe in democracy is a liar??
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:46 PM   #162 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
The United States is founded on abstract concepts like freedom, individual liberty, equality and democracy, none of which are factual or can be substantiated.

They all require a step of faith.

Should we say that anyone who doesn't believe in democracy is a liar??
It depends to what capacity one "believes in democracy". If someone thinks democracy, like the god-concept, has its own inherent and independent existence in a way, then I'd say you have a point. But even abstract concepts can have evidence to exist, so long as we distinguish that existence not as an independently existing entity but as an occasion between interrelated parts; an event if you will. But, what does exist inherently as an entity (presumably besides the universe) anyway??

You seem to have a simplistic ontology. It's much more factual and reasonable to say democracy exists than God exists.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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