The Bible - Page 2

pensacola_niceman · 10-27-2007, 11:18 AM

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Originally Posted by fxashun

Both. Spiritually, that's a whole different deal. But "spirit" isn't a tangible object so even if we are "here" spritually, where were we when the Earth was as dead as Mars or Venus. Or maybe those planets are only physically dead but spiritually teeming with "life".

We are all the product of star dust, and when we perish, to stardust we shall return.

fxashun · 10-27-2007, 01:34 PM

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Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman

We are all the product of star dust, and when we perish, to stardust we shall return.

Very much agreed.

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Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman

But the divine question is: What does it matter?

Well, I think if you are a believer in the Bible, or any organized religion, that's your right. Earthly goings on seem to be very important to Bible people. Me on the other hand, I'm just concerned about getting my family successfully through this lifetime with the least amount of friction. I don't think I need the stories in the Bible to tell me what is pretty much obvious.

Katczinsky · 10-27-2007, 02:19 PM

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Originally Posted by sgtdmski

Or how about, how all the works of scientist have yet to prove the Bible in error. Not to mention the work of historians and archeologists. Everytime they have thought to have found an error in the Bible, lo and behold, the Bible is correct and the scientist, historian and archeologist was wrong.

Are you kidding? The history of science has just been a long disproving of old superstitious claims to reality. All we have seen is the lessening of the 'god(s) of the gaps'. First we knew next to nothing so we ascribed Gods and demons to practically every natural occurrence from death, to the weather, to the common cold. Then obviously as science progressed we didn't need as many Gods to help explain then-inexplicable phenomena.

The Bible has been proven wrong countless times in its attempts at describing our universe, so many that most people no longer hold the stories of the Bible as literal claims to reality but mere allegories. For example, obviously mentally ill and sick people do not have demons possessing them (as the Bible claims and as Jesus heroically frees people from), but rather people are effected by viruses and mental diseases. The Earth isn't at the center of the universe, but the Earth revolves around the sun which itself revolves around a galactic center comprising just one of up to 400 billion stars that make up our Milky Way, which itself makes up just one of more than one hundred billion galaxies in our universe. Likewise, the Earth isn't flat. The Earth wasn't created four thousand years ago. The first humans didn't play with the dinosaurs. It goes on and on...

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For instance the Kingdom of Edom is mentioned throughout the Old Testament. Most scholars believed that Edom did not come into existence until around the 8th Century BC. The Bible claims that David conquered the Edomites and placed a garrison in in Edom (2 Samuel 8:14). Well scholars believe that if David truly existed it was during the period of 1010 - 970 BC. Since Edom did not exist until the 8th Century BC, the Bible must be wrong. Score one for science.

Problem. A team of archeologists led by Russell Adams recently excavated a site in Edom (Jordan today) that dates to a mining operation from the 11th Century, and further found that a protective fortress was built around it dating to the 10th Century. There dating came from using radiocarbon methods. So it would seem that the historians and scientists were initially wrong, the Bible was correct in its assertion that Edom existed during the time of David. Opps, so much for science.

Yeah, oops, so much for science, correcting itself. Because you know, science is unreliable, it actually corrects and challenges theories on the basis of empiricism, unlike the hard rock science of the Bible which must be accepted in faith (without evidence).

Get real, Sgt. The Bible didn't prove or disprove anything, it was hearsay. Archeology in this case was that which proved anything. If anything, this is a true score for science and archeology.

Just because half of the fiction books on my shelf mention real places doesn't mean any one of them is some arbiter of great truth.

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Recently discoveries in Egypt have added to the proof of the accuracy of the Bible. Proof of the existence of Dibon and Hebron only further add to the historical accuracy of the Bible.

Then this should mean that the discoveries of ancient Greek and other locations should lend to the accuracy of the Odyssey, but it doesn't. And I'm not going to go pray to Zeus because the Iliad mentioned historical sites.

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Consider the fact that the New Testament is roughly 2000 years old, and the Old Testament is around 3500 years old, the accuracy in science and medicine is astonishing.

I don't see how. Actually, considering the level of inaccuracy of science and medicine it describes, and yet to think that there are still people like yourself who still consider it a great arbiter of truth about the natural world is astonishing.

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For far too long science has used the absence of evidence as evidence of absence in disproving the Bible.

I don't see where this is coming from. The evidence of the presence of biological causes for illness has led us to conclude that invisible demons aren't the cause.

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So by this standard then one must question, if there is an absence of evidence in the fossil record concerning evolution, then there is evidence that evolution is absent. But science does not do that, instead they hold the Bible to one Standard and their theories to a lesser.

dmk

Actually, even if this argument is sound (which it is not since it has faulty premises as I pointed out above), it is still false because your second premise (that there exists absence of evidence pertaining to evolutionary fossil record) is also false. There exists a multitude of data concerning evolution. So much that even some fundamentalist Christians consider evolution a fact at least when it comes to non-human animals (because I guess you can recognize evidence about non-humans but ignore evidence on humans? And I guess humans are supposed to be non-animals?).

Grace · 10-28-2007, 07:18 AM

Where does the bible say that the earth is flat?

tadpole256 · 10-28-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman

We are all the product of star dust, and when we perish, to stardust we shall return.

Amen!

Katczinsky · 10-28-2007, 05:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Grace

Where does the bible say that the earth is flat?

I dare you to find the four corners of the Earth. I dare you to find the "edges" of the Earth.

Besides, where is heaven if it is supposed to be "up"? Where is hell if it is supposed to be "down", the core?

"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea". Job 11:9

Granted, the Bible doesn't say "Then God said, 'the Earth is flat!'" But the point I was trying to convey is that the Church from its beginning days to the Medieval period was arguing for a flat Earth based on interpretation of scripture.

But your cherry-picking response to my post was kind of unfair to say the least.

Grace · 10-29-2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

I dare you to find the four corners of the Earth. I dare you to find the "edges" of the Earth.

Besides, where is heaven if it is supposed to be "up"? Where is hell if it is supposed to be "down", the core?

"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea". Job 11:9

Granted, the Bible doesn't say "Then God said, 'the Earth is flat!'" But the point I was trying to convey is that the Church from its beginning days to the Medieval period was arguing for a flat Earth based on interpretation of scripture.

But your cherry-picking response to my post was kind of unfair to say the least.

The bible knew the earth was round.
Isaiah 40:22 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

BS it was science that told us the earth was flat, and sat on top of a Giant elephant. You all have been "cherry picking" my responces since the evolution topic began. Scripture tells us that the earth was hung in space on nothing, thousands of years before we actualy knew that to be true.

Grace · 10-29-2007, 07:36 AM

Job 26:7 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.

So lets recap here a sec. The bible knew the earth was round, and sat on nothing in space. Hmmm.

mytmouse57 · 10-29-2007, 09:21 AM

I think the Bible, like all Holy Scripture, contains some literal passages and many more metaphorical and allegorical passages.

For example, the story of Jonah and the whale. It's an insult to one's intelligence (and therefore to God, who granted us intelligence and the ability to reason) to think a man literally lived in the belly of a whale for a few days before being vomited back out.

Clearly, this story has symbolic meaning.

Katczinsky · 10-29-2007, 04:21 PM

Psst, Grace...a circle is flat...

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