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Stop the American Atheists (Petition #2493)

Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 12-05-2007, 02:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west View Post
A pair of Atheists want to see the cross removed from Mt. Soledad in San Diego. They first came to light a dozen or so years ago. The case has moved back and forth between the courts, from the lower to the Supreme Court of the United States.

It is a war memorial, but the atheists view the cross as a religious symbol. I'm all for the cross staying.

Appeals court revisits Mt. Soledad land transfer | The San Diego Union-Tribune

Hwy, that article is from 2006. Is this still being drug out?

It does serve as a reminder that fundamentalists on the non-religious side can, on occasion, be just as ridiculous as religious fundamentalists.
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west View Post
The cross was built as a WWII memorial, honoring the man and women who fought in the second world war.

But like I said, the atheists view the cross as a religious symbol.
I'm confused. The cross is a war memorial? I thought it was a Jesus thing. Are you telling me there is a war memorial that consists of nothing but the cross? WTF built that and why? Could you give any more context?


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Old 12-05-2007, 03:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm confused. The cross is a war memorial? I thought it was a Jesus thing. Are you telling me there is a war memorial that consists of nothing but the cross? WTF built that and why? Could you give any more context?
That's right. The cross is a war memorial.

Mount Soledad Memorial Association

the mt. soledad war memorial cross - Google Search
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:22 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Kat stated:

Whilst that may be factual and come with stats to prove it...I would say that those who are turning to atheism were already NOT believing. Fencesitters, agnostics and those who were not already giving much thought to a belief system at all were the most impacted.
My personal experience contends that, and most of the atheists I currently know. No, actually all of them were at one point religious. I don't know anyone that grew up in an atheist household, but I don't seem to have any trouble coming across people who have, upon their own investigations, rejected their religion and the notion of faith in favor of reason.

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But you won't find so many converts in fundamental religions simply because of some of the media attention to atheism provided by Dawkins, Harris, etc. In fact, within their ranks, hardly any would have dared to even read any of the literature provided by the aforementioned infidels.

OhDear
I know I don't speak on his behalf, but from what I remember from my brother, he could have been considered a fundamentalist Christian. Walk up to his desk now and you're likely to see a copy of "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens or perhaps "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I have known others who came to same conclusions, and I doubt those authors explaining atheism had no part in ridding misconceptions behind atheism.

Michael Shermer, for example, well-known advocate for skepticism (Skeptic Magazine) and atheism, was once a Christian fundamentalist.

Actually, it's my contention that the ruthlessness of fundamentalism (an expression, not a perversion, of a particular faith) drives people with a conscience to question their faith, which leads them to the many philosophers of atheism and religious skepticism from the classics such as Empiricus, Democritus, Lucretius, to David Hume, Darwin, Mark Twain, to today's Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, and the like.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 12-05-2007, 03:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
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You are right Kat.
I forgot.
Even my own journey!!!

OhDear
Old 12-05-2007, 03:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Stock Photo of the Mt Soledad War Memorial Cross - Acclaim Stock Photography

I can see the point that Christians have hijacked a war memorial dedicated to American soldiers. I didn't know it was a Christian cross on public land. It seems Jewish organizations filed suit too. Can't say I blame them.

I have a brother who passed away a few years ago. I got tired of a few relatives who put so much stuff on his grave that it was hard not to think I was visiting their grief instead of mine own. My memories over the loss of a wonderful brother trumped their selfish display of rudeness and inconsideration for others. I trashed their junk.

Nobody protests head stone markers of crosses and stars of david (but some christians have protested other religion's symbols) on the graves of individual military service members at cemeteries, public and private.

The Christians are protesting Pagan Religious Symbols.


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"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." - John F. Kennedy
Last edited by DanteBoston; 12-05-2007 at 03:31 PM.
Old 12-05-2007, 03:27 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteBoston View Post
Kat, can I call you kat?
If you feel strongly about it.

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Kat, I asked a question. I did not sign up for a lecture. Can I see your credentials? My signature?
I'm not trying to lecture you, I'm just saying the petition is a myth. Your signature of a JFK quote alludes to the enemy of truth, which isn't lies, but perpetuated myth. Hence the relevance.

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I see where you define yourself as very liberal. Is your style what you think being very liberal represents?
I don't follow you.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:29 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I don't follow you.
I didn't think you would.


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Old 12-05-2007, 03:34 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteBoston View Post
Stock Photo of the Mt Soledad War Memorial Cross - Acclaim Stock Photography

I can see the point that Christians have hijacked a war memorial dedicated to American soldiers. I didn't know it was a Christian cross on public land. It seems Jewish organizations filed suit too. Can't say I blame them.

I have a brother who passed away a few years ago. I got tired of a few relatives who put so much stuff on his grave that it was hard not to think I was visiting their grief instead of mine over the loss of a wonderful brother. I trashed their junk.

Nobody protests head stone markers of crosses and stars of david (but some christians have protested other religion's symbols) on the graves of individual military service members at cemeteries, public and private.

The Christians are protesting Pagan Religious Symbols.
Well you know everybody gotta complain about something.

Sorry for the loss of your brother. I had a brother who died before I was born. Just about every year I visit his grave in another city. That requires a day's drive or a short 1-hour flight in a jetplane.

Since he was a little boy, often children have lambs put on their gravestone. He has one.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
Old 12-05-2007, 03:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Kat stated:

Whilst that may be factual and come with stats to prove it...I would say that those who are turning to atheism were already NOT believing. Fencesitters, agnostics and those who were not already giving much thought to a belief system at all were the most impacted.

But you won't find so many converts in fundamental religions simply because of some of the media attention to atheism provided by Dawkins, Harris, etc. In fact, within their ranks, hardly any would have dared to even read any of the literature provided by the aforementioned infidels.

OhDear

Every Atheist and Agnostic that I have ever known was raised in a religious household -- including myself. And each and every one spent a lot of time exploring various religious and spiritual philosophies before coming to non-belief -- again, including myself.

As to fundamentalists? What degree of fundamentalist?

I was raised Southern Baptist. Fundamental enough?

How about Methodists and Catholics? I have known people raised in each to turn to Agnosticism.
Right now America spends $700 billion every year on foreign oil. That's our money going overseas when it could be staying here. We have to stop this.
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