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Stop the American Atheists (Petition #2493)

Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 12-05-2007, 03:36 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by highway80west View Post
Hmm, I always thought the cross was intended to symbolize Jesus' martyrdom.

But perhaps it symbolizing war and division among men is more befitting to the history of Christianity.

I object to it, and I would think Christians would be too, along with those of different religions who sacrificed themselves in the war.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:39 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I guess it must be one thing to see a group of men raise the US flag on Iwo Jima, and it is another to see a war memorial built on a mountain top in the city limits.

Frankly, I wish the controversy would float away. But as long as there are courts, attorneys, and groups, the issue won't die for a long time, I'm afraid.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
Old 12-05-2007, 03:42 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I guess it must be one thing to see a group of men raise the US flag on Iwo Jima, and it is another to see a war memorial built on a mountain top in the city limits.
Men raising the flag isn't exactly an expression of a particular religion.

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Frankly, I wish the controversy would float away. But as long as there are courts, attorneys, and groups, the issue won't die for a long time, I'm afraid.
Of course as long as there is the law and those to enforce it, it won't go away. But of course, it won't go away also as long as there are those willing to disregard the separation of church and state.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:43 PM   #44 (permalink)
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My personal experience contends that, and most of the atheists I currently know. No, actually all of them were at one point religious. I don't know anyone that grew up in an atheist household, but I don't seem to have any trouble coming across people who have, upon their own investigations, rejected their religion and the notion of faith in favor of reason.



I know I don't speak on his behalf, but from what I remember from my brother, he could have been considered a fundamentalist Christian. Walk up to his desk now and you're likely to see a copy of "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens or perhaps "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I have known others who came to same conclusions, and I doubt those authors explaining atheism had no part in ridding misconceptions behind atheism.

Michael Shermer, for example, well-known advocate for skepticism (Skeptic Magazine) and atheism, was once a Christian fundamentalist.

Actually, it's my contention that the ruthlessness of fundamentalism (an expression, not a perversion, of a particular faith) drives people with a conscience to question their faith, which leads them to the many philosophers of atheism and religious skepticism from the classics such as Empiricus, Democritus, Lucretius, to David Hume, Darwin, Mark Twain, to today's Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, and the like.
converts from one faith to another usually bring an amount of fervor and fever into a discussion that it is almost counterproductive.

I do not always trust people who had thought they possessed the ultimate truth on any given day only to wake up the next knowing it was all a lie and the new truth was the one real truth.

I am not an Atheist, I am a non-believer. Do you know what the difference is?


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Old 12-05-2007, 03:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Well you know everybody gotta complain about something.

Sorry for the loss of your brother. I had a brother who died before I was born. Just about every year I visit his grave in another city. That requires a day's drive or a short 1-hour flight in a jetplane.

Since he was a little boy, often children have lambs put on their gravestone. He has one.
You think a memorial dedicated to military personnel of all faiths should be owned by own? Do you see the validity in the argument? Or do you see it as all ado about nothing?


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Old 12-05-2007, 03:47 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I guess it must be one thing to see a group of men raise the US flag on Iwo Jima, and it is another to see a war memorial built on a mountain top in the city limits.

Frankly, I wish the controversy would float away. But as long as there are courts, attorneys, and groups, the issue won't die for a long time, I'm afraid.
What does either of these have to do with Christian symbolism?


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"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." - John F. Kennedy
Old 12-05-2007, 03:47 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
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converts from one faith to another usually bring an amount of fervor and fever into a discussion that it is almost counterproductive.

I do not always trust people who had thought they possessed the ultimate truth on any given day only to wake up the next knowing it was all a lie and the new truth was the one real truth.
And I don't trust people who accept their realities at face value and never make an attempt at self analysis. Even if they agree with me.

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I am not an Atheist, I am a non-believer. Do you know what the difference is?
None whatsoever. So long as you have a lack of belief in god (literally 'a' or without-'theism' or belief in god) you are an atheist. Objecting such a term for political reasons or whatever is of course your prerogative, but if you don't believe in God you're a-theist.

Perhaps you're attempting make a differentiation between atheist and antitheist.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 12-05-2007, 03:49 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Hmm, I always thought the cross was intended to symbolize Jesus' martyrdom.

But perhaps it symbolizing war and division among men is more befitting to the history of Christianity.

I object to it, and I would think Christians would be too, along with those of different religions who sacrificed themselves in the war.
I can understand why you would object. But why do you think that Christians should object to it?

For the record, I think that it is inappropriate but I feel that the fuss being made is over the top. It is only one component of a the memorial and I don't see it as worth fighting about.
Right now America spends $700 billion every year on foreign oil. That's our money going overseas when it could be staying here. We have to stop this.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:54 PM   #49 (permalink)
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And I don't trust people who accept their realities at face value and never make an attempt at self analysis. Even if they agree with me.
are you a former mad munk? because these rambling sure do have all the marks of coming from one.

How you could confidently make such a judgement about the self analysis of a person you know next to nothing about is fascinating to me. And you have no idea what realities I've faced. You post like a frustrated academic. or a failed one.


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None whatsoever. So long as you have a lack of belief in god (literally 'a' or without-'theism' or belief in god) you are an atheist. Objecting such a term for political reasons or whatever is of course your prerogative, but if you don't believe in God you're a-theist.

Perhaps you're attempting make a differentiation between atheist and antitheist.
I told you before about the lectures. What will it take for you to listen for once...truly listen...to a voice not your own?


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Old 12-05-2007, 03:57 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I can understand why you would object. But why do you think that Christians should object to it?

For the record, I think that it is inappropriate but I feel that the fuss being made is over the top. It is only one component of a the memorial and I don't see it as worth fighting about.
From the photo I linked it looks t be the major component and Jewish groups were protesting. Oh yeah, and there was that one inconvenient issue...public lands.

Mount Soledad cross controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." - John F. Kennedy
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