How it is that you believe God sent us his word, but failed, is beyond comprehension.

Wow, for someone who spends so much time trying to convince others that they shouldnt judge, well, your hypocracy knows no bounds.

My quick thoughts:

-The Bible is God's perfect Word, divinely inspired, divinely preserved.
-The Bible says women and men are the same before God, God is without partiality.
-The Bible says women are to respect their husbands but that doesn't mean one is better any more than children obeying their parents or employees obeying their employers or a people obeying their ruler. It's done not because one is better or more right but because God has given them the rule over us.
-The Catholic Church did not continue Christ's church, but rather the Pharisees and Romans who persecuted Jesus, hence they bore evil fruits, not good fruits, like the Inquisition, Crusades, and Conquistadors. The real Christians were those persecuted as heretics for centuries before the Reformation, possibly including those like the Waldenses, Donatists, Paulicians, etc.

I never stated anything about how I live my life Grace. I've argued over Christianity, but never said that I was a practising Christian. I am no hypocrite because I think someone is a lunatic. And I would be in torture to have to spend any time in that man's presence. He is a hate monger, and a wing nut.

And Jzyehoshua, I agree with you on some of your point about the heretical sects, while it leaves some out, but I don't believe the bible is God's word preserved.

Okay, well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I figure if God was powerful enough to divinely inspire His Word He could divinely preserve it as well.

I also see the Bible claim it is completely preserved in Psalms 12:6-7 and Jesus said many times all sorts of things had to happen so the Scriptures could be fulfilled, and that it's easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a period or apostrophe to fail. All the apostles quote from it even to the point of emphasizing subtleties of wording to prove their points.

I guess I just don't see the Bible treat itself like a regular document, but the very Word of God. I'd be interested in hearing why you don't think it's God's preserved Word. I recognize people believe there to be many contradictions in it.

As I said, you are trying to misdirect by bringing up a subject that has no validity, as proven by History. You, must try and discredit the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament that meet the requirements of the cannoniaztion process. That of harmonizing with the total truth presented in the entirety of the Holy Bible, starting with Genesis and concluding with the Book of Revelations...not one contradiction of truth is to be found from any source that is presented and included in the Cannon, has been proven to exist. Though there has been many attempts made, the only thing those attempts have presented us were a handful of OPINIONS, with no facts to back them up. The "fake" books that you are "espousing" a belief in were not included in the cannon for a very good reason. They made many and various contradictions to both the Old and New Testament that were included in the Holy Bible.

And by the very suggestion, that "YOU" have presented you have concluded that God is both a "liar" and does not have the ability to keep His word. As this scripture was drawn from a cannon Book of Scripture that went through the cannon process nearly 200 years before the birth of Christ, "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12: 6-7) And this "promise of God" was carried over into the New Testament and presented in even the WORDS OF CHRIST, whom I suppose you are claiming is lying also, and does not keep His promises as well, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass" (Matthew 24:35). Or the inspired Apostle Peter, or is He also lying? "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incoruptible, by THE WORD OF GOD, WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOR EVER" ( l Peter 2:23). "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this IS THE WORD which by the gospel is preached unto you." (Vs. 25).

Now you are "suggesting" that God does not have the ability to keep His promised word, that you, and several other "well informed" people are the only ones that possess the truth. Again, I would rather believe God, and His promises, not that which has been proven by history time and time again to be "false doctrine". If it were not false, the "divine hand" of God, which has promised to protect HIS WORD, from all sources, would have "allowed" those "extra" books to be entered into the cannon. Ralph

And that it was written by humans, who are fallible. And about a hundred other reasons that it would take far too long to write, Jzyehoshua.

That is surely the most ridiculous garbage that I've ever heard, Ralph. Do you think that Peter actually wrote his Gospel down himself? Or Matthew, or the rest?

As I said, you are trying to misdirect by bringing up a subject that has no validity, as proven by History. You, must try and discredit the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament that meet the requirements of the cannoniaztion process. That of harmonizing with the total truth presented in the entirety of the Holy Bible, starting with Genesis and concluding with the Book of Revelations...not one contradiction of truth is to be found from any source that is presented and included in the Cannon, has been proven to exist. Though there has been many attempts made, the only thing those attempts have presented us were handful of OPINIONS, with no facts to back them up. The "fake" books that you are "espousing" a belief in were not included in the cannon for a very good reason. They made many and various contradictions to both the Old and New Testament that were included in the Holy Bible.

And by the very suggestion, that "YOU" have presented you have concluded that God is both a "liar" and does not have the ability to keep His word. As this scripture was drawn from a cannon Book of Scripture that went through the cannon process nearly 200 years before the birth of Christ, "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12: 6-7) And this "promise of God" was carried over into the New Testament and presented in even the WORDS OF CHRIST, whom I suppose you are claiming is lying also, and does not keep His promises as well, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass" (Matthew 24:35). Or the inspired Apostle Peter, or is He also lying? "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incoruptible, by THE WORD OF GOD, WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOR EVER" ( l Peter 2:23). "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this IS THE WORD which by the gospel is preached unto you." (Vs. 25). With the "inspired" Apostle Peter telling us directly that His word's as well as Paul's words are considered "SCRIPTURE". "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the COMMANDMENT OF US the apostles of the Lord and Savior." ( ll Peter 3:1-2). And, "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation: even as our beloved BROTHER "PAUL" also according to the wisdom given unto HIM(PAUL) hath written unto you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which some things HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, which they that are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE WREST, as they do also the other scriptures, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION." ( ll Peter 3:15-16).

Thus, it is clearly evident by what YOU have espoused, YOU also are wrestling with the scriptures of Paul to your own destruction. As apparently now, you must conclude that Peter also, was not inspired, nor a true Apostle, because he(PETER) just validated Paul's apostleship. CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING. Are all the writers of the New Testament scripts lying and deserve no place in the cannon? Only the ones that you think might validate your position to be allowed, no matter what God has declared? Ralph

Now you are "suggesting" that God does not have the ability to keep His promised word, that you, and several other "well informed" people are the only ones that possess the truth. Again, I would rather believe God, and His promises, not that which has been proven by history time and time again to be "false doctrine". Ralph

Your not getting my point, Ralph. You have put all of your faith into human creation, without understanding the real messages they meant to teach. And you readily accept what an emperor and Bishops decided was the true meaning of Christianity, and the best way to consolidate differing early Christian texts into one coherent canon. It actually didn't work, as there are many contradictions to be found. And that certainly does not mean that the gospels that weren't included weren't real, or that they were wrong.