Defending the Truth

Originally Posted by garysher

What about the wiccan creed of doing no harm to others?

Do you only apply that when it's convenient?

Is that a good example for a wiccan "minister" to give to his flock?

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Not only when it's convenient, but to the best of our ability, keeping in mind that nobody is perfect. And it's true, sometime members of a coven tend to hold their High Priest and High Priestess to standards that are not possible for anyone to live by.


So now it's not possible for ANYONE to pay their ER bills??



It can be a hard lesson when you learn that your leaders are just as human and fallible as you are.

Originally Posted by garysher

There's a world of difference between manifesting fallibility and jumping voluntarily.

Apparently you wiccans have built this delusional self-defence system to try and abdicate yourselves from any sense of guilt or culpability.

No wonder you signed up.

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Actually, it's the exact opposite. As Wiccans we try to do the least harm possible, but we know that sometimes it is bound to happen. That's not trying to abdicate ourselves from guilt. It's being realistic. Are you saying we should try to be perfect?

Originally Posted by garysher

I'm saying you should be responsible and pay your bills, not leave them to somebody else whilst preaching about doing no harm to others.

You're a fraud and you're busted.

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Actually, it's the exact opposite. As Wiccans we try to do the least harm possible, but we know that sometimes it is bound to happen. That's not trying to abdicate ourselves from guilt. It's being realistic. Are you saying we should try to be perfect?

Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer

Originally Posted by garysher
There's a world of difference between manifesting fallibility and jumping voluntarily.

Apparently you wiccans have built this delusional self-defence system to try and abdicate yourselves from any sense of guilt or culpability.

No wonder you signed up.




Since I don't directly read Gary's posts, except through what someone quotes from what he posts, this is the only way I can respond to your latest response in regards to your reply to Gary...

First off, Gary is taking what WT is saying, and applying it to other Wiccans in general...

The simple fact is, what WT is doing has absolutely nothing to do with Wicca or it's practices.

Instead, what WT is doing is typical of many people of all religious practices do...Try to justify their more anti-social behaviors/actions by frosting it in 'religious right' to act out of society norm...

Sorry, but the majority of Wiccans would in fact have a hard time swallowing WT's excuses about his avoidance of taking financial responsibility for his bills...The majority of Wiccans take great pride in being a community asset, not a financial burden or creating financial losses that take away from the whole of community...

And there's more 'non-Pagan/non-Wiccan' people that abuse the medical system...And the majority of those peeps would claim to be Christian or Christian-based 'morality' in the process.

And WT...As much as I respect your right to believe as you do, and follow your path as you deem fit, you are actually doing a poor job of representing mainstream Wiccan beliefs...

Yes, they believe in 'harm none do as you will'...And they also believe that in some instances, that 'some harm' could be caused...But they do not by any stretch of the imagination do things they KNOW causes willful harm to others. They do their best to minimize any potential harm, not add to the negative actions of others to make harm even more present...

And that's what you're doing, when you add to the harm that's already been created by those that don't pay their medical bills and expect the rest of society to pick up the tab...Because you ADD to the defict that's already present, meaning even more people are having to do without medical help themselves...

You're making an already present wound greater...And trying to justify that negative action by your faith? Much like those that abuse the tenants of Jesus, then claim 'we're all sinners, God will forgive me' attitude.

In this case, you expect your 'higher self' or the 'Goddess' to forgive your actions...And I have to say that you're just as misdirected as those that claim a differeing higher power allows them to act against their beliefs teachings...

You are causing harm. Not just to those who need medical help...But also creating even greater harm to other Wiccans by claiming it's your 'beliefs' that 'allow' you to abuse the system.

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Ack. There's a difference between the "fluffy bunny" rede and the real meaning of the rede. Are you saying I'm supposed to starve so the hospital can get their money?

Originally Posted by garysher

When will you stop making feeble excuses? Stand up and be a man.

If you can't pay immediately then pay over time.

But don't duck your responsibilities and pretend it's all ok when others have to pay for you.

I can see why you would end up as a bisexual wiccan. You're lost.

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

You are like a vulture, that sees someone's weak spot and attacks relentlessly. I have no respect for you or anything you say. My discussion on this topic is with Ali only from now on.