But if you are collecting welfare and claiming kids, there are social security numbers necessary. And again, the welfare comes from the government. If a certain number of people from a certain area is collecting welfare, it would seem to be rather easy to get them for fraud. Additionally, since the women can't legally marry their "husband", I don't see how their collecting welfare is any different than any other single woman collecting it. That kind of "fraud" isn't limited to the FLDS.

As for the birth certificates, that's speculation. Unless you can show where that is actually happening in THIS case, that's just an allegation. But again, welfare fraud and false birth certificates don't seem to go together. It seems more to me that people are bouncing from one thing to another trying to defile these people because they really don't know what the hell is going on. And that's fine. But luckily, hopefully, the law doesn't work like that. And in THIS case, when they DID try to work like that with this unfounded 16 year old's allegations, it looks like it might come back to bite Texas in the ass.

Couple things...Getting a disgruntled person's opinion on something is like asking a soldier that got booted from military what his opinion of military service is. If you didn't like where you were, the best thing for you is to leave or get kicked out. No one should be kept there if they don't want to be there. But then again, how far are you gonna take that. Do all parent's kids want to be where they are? Are you gonna take a smoker's kids from them because the child says he/she doesn't like smoking? This could get dicey.

As for the polygamists opinion on race...that's their business. I don't go through life thinking everyone loves me. I don't love everybody. People have prejudices for race, religion, body weight, hair color, attractiveness and lots of other crap. These people not liking Black people really doesn't concern me. They lived behind a wall in the middle of BFE. Good luck with that. That's be best place for a racist IMHO.

Here are some excerpts about THIS particular injustice. You know, relevant to THIS situation.
Caregivers blast Texas' treatment of polygamous sect's women, children - Salt Lake Tribune
After the separation, a baby was allegedly left in a stroller with no food and water for 24 hours and ended up in a hospital, according to another statement.

Mothers who initially were allowed to stay with their children were later required to leave if their child was older than 12 months. Describing that day, one employee wrote, "the floor was literally slick with tears in places


A boy estimated at age 3 walked along a row of cots asking for someone to rock him after he was separated from his mother, one employee wrote. Two CPS worker trailed the youngster taking notes but not helping him.

I'm sure that's just a tip of the iceberg. There were several; kids that ended up in the hospital.

That's f'n abuse. That's the kind of sh#t that pisses me off. If a girl doesn't want to get married and is forced to do so, THAT is also abuse. But as of yet, I haven't heard any of these "children" complaining. Cept that they don't know WTF is going on. A condition both sides seems to be guilty of.

It's actually rather funny to me. You have a group of women on this site that bitch and moan about a woman having ownership of her body and should be able to have an abortion. And these people give all these horror stories of what can happen to babies that are born to parents that don't want them. Well here we have parents that DO want their kids and are raising them the way that THEY want, and we STILL have some of these same women bitching AGAIN. Kinda makes me wonder about some of these "women". Not that I didn't already form an opinion of the man hating type of woman that would want to just kill a baby that their own actions created. Takes a special kind for that kind of hate.

Luckily, it seems some things are already turning around.
CPS stopped in effort to remove baby, his mother | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Texas Regional News

FLDS Couple Seeks Emergency Order to Stop Infant Seizure, Say Perry & Haas

This speaks for me and my feelings on the subject.

That is the true point, WT. There are no official records of anything for the FLDS. First thing; if there is one teenage (under the legal age of consent) girl pregnant; a crime has been committed. That crime is statutory rape. Granted, many teenage girls become pregnant all across the country, and no charges are pressed; because the involved parties simply do not wish to do so. But it is a crime! That is what the authorities will hold as their ace in the hole. Secondly, these DNA tests will prove just who fathered who. I believe this will bring subsequent charges against many men belonging to this sect. Possibly incest.
But I agree that we should wait until we see how this all plays out. We will then see just what charges (if any) are presented; and which people are actually charged.

That's what I said about statutory rape last week, Joe. So your words backed mine.

When due process erodes, the state becomes the abuser | thespectrum.com | The Spectrum

One pregnant girl does not justify emptying the whole neighborhood. We are talking over 450 kids. You guys kill me supporting this action.

Additionally, how do they know she was 13. When you have THIS happening.
KXAN.com - News, Weather, Sports - Austin, TX | Sect mother of newborn not a minor, CPS concedes
From what I understand, there was no 13 year old pregnant girl. There was a girl who they suspected of HAVING BEEN PREGNANT when she WAS 13. Was THIS that "girl"? According to the CPS, she would have been 13 when she had her first child. Another allegation proven false.

Come on, FX, can you admit that when those underage girls were raped (or if you want, consensual sex) by older men, are you ever going to admit what Joe and I were saying: that it was indeed statutory rape?

That's not what I am protesting. I am protesting the removal of 450 kids from their homes. I am protesting religious persecution of changing laws with an eye toward a particular group of people. I am protesting that even if there WAS a case of statutory rape going on, THAT wasn't what drove the raid since it has been alleged that they contacted the actual suspect and knew he wasn't in the state and hadn't been in the state.

I have no problem with prosecuting a person for statutory rape. But I have never known a charge of statutory rape requiring the removal of every child in a neighborhood. That is ignorant. And what if they don't find the father of the child? What then? Usually in cases of statutory rape, they have a suspect and aren't using the shotgun method trying to find a father.

This is a witch hunt, not a quest for "justice".

Well, if the father of the child can't be found, then what is a mother to do? Ward of the state for the child, or the mother get married to another man who would be a step-father? Makes us wonder, doesn't it?

Please God help these children, Im litteraly in tears.