Interfaith dialogue - Page 13

Tigerwiccan · 05-13-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradoxymoron

I think the greatest thing a minister can do, Tigerwiccan, is to be a living example of your religion.

And I am that to the best of my ability.

Tigerwiccan · 05-13-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Over 100 posts and we still haven't been told what wiccanism is all about!

Thanks I accept your apology.

It really is as quick as typing "wicca" on Google.

That said, if you want the "Reader's Digest" version of what Wicca (btw, "wiccanism" is not even remotely a real word) is, here is what I would tell someone in an elevator, as you said, if they asked:

***Wicca is a reconstructionist neopagan religion based on old folk religious practices, that incorporates a reverence for and celebration of nature and its cycles, a belief that subtle forces exist and can influence the physical world, the idea that we are more than just our physical bodies, and the belief that our actions, good or bad, will bring natural consequences in this life or another.***

Now, kat mentioned that they didn't see where Wicca fit in with other religions, and one of the reasons for religion being an "opiate" for opressed masses. And I agree! Wicca is not like other religions in that regard, as it promotes personal empowerment and thinking for oneself. So while some religions tell people how to go about just about every aspect of their lives, Wicca teaches one to follow their own path and work out their own will.

highway80west · 05-13-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Over 100 posts and we still haven't been told what wiccanism is all about!

Thanks I accept your apology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

It really is as quick as typing "wicca" on Google.

That said, if you want the "Reader's Digest" version of what Wicca (btw, "wiccanism" is not even remotely a real word) is, here is what I would tell someone in an elevator, as you said, if they asked:

***Wicca is a reconstructionist neopagan religion based on old folk religious practices, that incorporates a reverence for and celebration of nature and its cycles, a belief that subtle forces exist and can influence the physical world, the idea that we are more than just our physical bodies, and the belief that our actions, good or bad, will bring natural consequences in this life or another.***

Now, kat mentioned that they didn't see where Wicca fit in with other religions, and one of the reasons for religion being an "opiate" for opressed masses. And I agree! Wicca is not like other religions in that regard, as it promotes personal empowerment and thinking for oneself. So while some religions tell people how to go about just about every aspect of their lives, Wicca teaches one to follow their own path and work out their own will.

I guess Gary can get a little delusional when he thinks someone has apologized to him. But nooooooooooooo, even I know you didn't apologize to him.

garysher · 05-13-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

And I am that to the best of my ability.

So what plans have you made to pay those delinquent medical bills?

garysher · 05-13-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

It really is as quick as typing "wicca" on Google.

That said, if you want the "Reader's Digest" version of what Wicca (btw, "wiccanism" is not even remotely a real word) is, here is what I would tell someone in an elevator, as you said, if they asked:

***Wicca is a reconstructionist neopagan religion based on old folk religious practices, that incorporates a reverence for and celebration of nature and its cycles, a belief that subtle forces exist and can influence the physical world, the idea that we are more than just our physical bodies, and the belief that our actions, good or bad, will bring natural consequences in this life or another.***

Now, kat mentioned that they didn't see where Wicca fit in with other religions, and one of the reasons for religion being an "opiate" for opressed masses. And I agree! Wicca is not like other religions in that regard, as it promotes personal empowerment and thinking for oneself. So while some religions tell people how to go about just about every aspect of their lives, Wicca teaches one to follow their own path and work out their own will.

So is it even a religion or simply the antithesis of a religion?

Is it just a philosophy of life, based on doing whatever you think you want??

How does Wicca explain the Creation?

Does Wicca tie current and historical events into a Grand Plan?

And what does Wicca say about a life after death?

Or are we left to "empower" ourselves with these "subtle forces" and hope that we do enough good things to earn a nice reincarnation?

Have you really thought through any of this or is Wiccan just a protest vote to reject the "opium of the masses"?

Tigerwiccan · 05-13-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

1. So is it even a religion or simply the antithesis of a religion?

2. Is it just a philosophy of life, based on doing whatever you think you want??

3. How does Wicca explain the Creation?

4. Does Wicca tie current and historical events into a Grand Plan?

5. And what does Wicca say about a life after death?

6. Or are we left to "empower" ourselves with these "subtle forces" and hope that we do enough good things to earn a nice reincarnation?

7. Have you really thought through any of this or is Wiccan just a protest vote to reject the "opium of the masses"?

Wow, real questions, and none of them having to do with my medical bills, so I'll answer them:

1. It's very much a religion, and it's even recognized as such in the Armed Forces Chaplains handbook.

2. It is also a philosophy of life, as are all religions. And nowhere in Wicca does it say just to do what you want. Wicca encourages one to always do the "right thing" when possible.

3. Wiccans in general believe in an overall creative force, but we don't pretend to know what it really is like some religions do.

4. Not really a grand plan, because predestination is largely a Christian concept, but most Wiccans believe that nature has a grand design that all life is involved in in one way or another.

5. Most Wiccans believe that the "soul" moves on to either rest for a while, reincarnate into a new body, or "ascend" to our ultimate destination to be one with the gods.

6. Many Wiccans do believe that what we do in this life will most likely affect us in the next.

7. Well I didn't create Wicca, so I'm not sure why that question would be directed at me.

Edit: I just want to add that you seem to have a few misconceptions on what a religion is. I hope I helped you out a little with those.

garysher · 05-13-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Wow, real questions, and none of them having to do with my medical bills, so I'll answer them:

1. It's very much a religion, and it's even recognized as such in the Armed Forces Chaplains handbook.

So are atheism, rastafarianism, the Universal Church of the Master and the Sri Chinmoy centres.

2. It is also a philosophy of life, as are all religions. And nowhere in Wicca does it say just to do what you want. Wicca encourages one to always do the "right thing" when possible.

Who decides what is the "right thing"?

3. Wiccans in general believe in an overall creative force, but we don't pretend to know what it really is like some religions do.

When wiccans have an orgasm do they shout

"Oh my overall creative force!"?

4. Not really a grand plan, because predestination is largely a Christian concept, but most Wiccans believe that nature has a grand design that all life is involved in in one way or another.

How would you differentiate predestination from a "grand design"?

5. Most Wiccans believe that the "soul" moves on to either rest for a while, reincarnate into a new body, or "ascend" to our ultimate destination to be one with the gods.

6. Many Wiccans do believe that what we do in this life will most likely affect us in the next.

7. Well I didn't create Wicca, so I'm not sure why that question would be directed at me.

Edit: I just want to add that you seem to have a few misconceptions on what a religion is. I hope I helped you out a little with those.

What misconceptions about religion do you think I seem to have?

garysher · 05-13-2008, 04:48 PM

As you seem incapable of describing wiccan, let me pitch your own "religion" for you:

Wicca is a reconstruction of the Nature worship of tribal Europe, strongly influenced by the living Nature worship traditions of tribal peoples in other parts of the world.

BASIC BELIEFS: Wiccans worship the sacred as immanent in Nature, often personified as Mother Earth and Father Sky. As polytheists, they may use many other names for Deity. Individuals will often choose Goddesses or Gods from any of the world's pantheons whose stories are particularly inspiring and use those Deities as a focus for personal devotions. Similarly, covens will use particular Deity names as a group focus, and these are often held secret by the groups.

It is very important to be aware that Wiccans do not in any way worship or believe in "Satan," "the Devil," or any similar entities. They point out that "Satan" is a symbol of rebellion against and inversion of the Christian and Jewish traditions. Wiccans do not revile the Bible. They simply regard it as one among many of the world's mythic systems, less applicable than some to their core values, but still deserving just as much respect as any of the others.

Most Wiccan groups also practice magic, by which they mean the direction and use of "psychic energy," those natural but invisible forces which surround all living things. Some members spell the word "magick," to distinguish it from sleight of hand entertainments. Wiccans employ such means as dance, chant, creative visualization and hypnosis to focus and direct psychic energy for the purpose of healing, protecting and aiding members in various endeavors. Such assistance is also extended to non-members upon request.

Many, but not all, Wiccans believe in reincarnation. Some take this as a literal description of what happens to people when they die. For others, it is a symbolic model that helps them deal with the cycles and changes within this life. Neither Reincarnation nor any other literal belief can be used as a test of an individual's validity as a member of the Old Religion.

Most groups have a handwritten collection of rituals and lore, known as a Book of Shadows. Part of the religious education of a new member will be to hand copy this book for him or herself. Over they years, as inspiration provides, new material will be added. Normally, access to these books is limited to initiated members of the religion.

Section on 'Wicca' in U.S. Army Chaplain's Handbook

garysher · 05-13-2008, 04:51 PM

PRACTICES AND BEHAVIORAL STANDARDS: The core ethical statement of Wicca, called the "Wiccan Rede" states "an it harm none, do what you will." The rede fulfills the same function as does the "Golden Rule" for Jews and Christians; all other ethical teachings are considered to be elaborations and applications of the Rede.

It is a statement of situational ethics (love that phrase), emphasizing at once the individual's responsibility to avoid harm to others and the widest range of personal autonomy in "victimless" activities. Wicca has been described as having a "high-choice" ethic.

Because of the basic Nature orientation of the religion, many Wiccans will regard all living things as Sacred, and show a special concern for ecological issues. For this reason, individual conscience will lead some to take a pacifist position.

Some are vegetarians. Others will feel that, as Nature's Way includes self-defense, they should participate in wars that they conscientiously consider to be just. The religion does not dictate either position, but requires each member to thoughtfully and meditatively examine her or his own conscience and to live by it.

Social forces generally do not yet allow Witches to publicly declare their religious faith without fear of reprisals such as loss of job, child custody challenges, ridicule, etc. Prejudice against Wiccans is the result of public confusion between Witchcraft and Satanism.

Wiccans in the military, especially those who may be posted in countries perceived to be particularly intolerant, will often have their dogtags read "No Religious Preference."

Concealment is a traditional Wiccan defense against persecution, so non-denominational dogtags should not contravene a member's request for religious services. Wiccans celebrate eight festivals, called "Sabbats," as a means of attunement to the seasonal rhythms of Nature

Section on 'Wicca' in U.S. Army Chaplain's Handbook[/quote]

highway80west · 05-13-2008, 05:03 PM

Sounds like Gary is on the warpath here.

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