Are you surprised?

I shouldn't be. He must have grown frustrated over trying to understand what the Wiccan religion is all about, just as I try to understand why atheists do not believe in God. Oh well.

The only thing that would frustrate him about any non-Christian belief is the fact that in Wicca there isn't some diety sitting there threatening to smite people and torture them for eternity...

Intrestingly enough though, whatever Gary's trying to trash about Wicca, I doubt that his beliefs will be trashed by those he's trying to insult/put down. Because if anything that the Wiccan (or even Pagan paths as well) teach is to respect other's preferred religious beliefs that differ from their own. Because all beliefs are sacred and deserve respect towards it and the individuals that follow a particular belief...

Funny how that works out eh? The non-Christian religions he'd trash has more respect/tolerance for his beliefs then he shows towards them? LOL!

I know there are other religions that he can question, but that's his right.

Oh well. I shall see you tomorrow. Enjoy your dinner.

Yes, it's his 'right' to do so...But that doesn't mean that his doing so is acceptable or the right thing to do.

It's all about respecting others who choose a different path then their own...Which he doesn't do. Yet, the path he trashes, teaches not to trash other beliefs, but to respect instead.

Everyone has the right to disagree with things...But not go out of their way to trash those that live/do differently then they'd choose to do.

Enjoy your supper as well hon. (((HUGZ))) See you later!

I don't believe I am "trashing" (?) anyone's beliefs. I'm simply asking them to explain their beliefs and justify them.

If wiccan is sich a powerful theology that people decide to base their whole lives on its tenets, why would they be shy about defending their faith??

It seems a lot of people are desperate to play victim and seek sympathy instead of being strong and standing up for what they believe.

Like I do.

garysher;

I don't believe I am "trashing" (?) anyone's beliefs. I'm simply asking them to explain their beliefs and justify them.

i agree (strangely...) you are not trying to trash anything, and it is good to have a dialogue that has been more respectful than others i have had. problem is, you are going to get different answers from different people. this might look inadequate and lead you to conclude that wiccans/ pagans don't know their own religion. really, the differences highlight the richness of the religion.

If wiccan is sich a powerful theology that people decide to base their whole lives on its tenets, why would they be shy about defending their faith??

go ask a few people on the street what they think wiccans or pagans believe and you won't need to ask this question.

It seems a lot of people are desperate to play victim and seek sympathy instead of being strong and standing up for what they believe.

perhaps we just don't want to lose our job due to ignorant prejudice, or we don't want any gossip behind our backs. pehaps we are just comfortable enough with our own understanding of the world that we do not feel the need to push it.

Like I do.

few people stand up for what they believe in the same way you do, garysher.

Why should anyone have to justify their beliefs to you? And I gave plenty of info on Wicca before you did your little cut and paste. Nice job on that, btw.

I have never been shy about what Wicca is and have answered and will continue to answer any honest question anyone might have on it.

But what I DON'T have to do for anyone, anywhere, at any time is "prove" that Wicca is a "real" religion. If you don't want to think it is, then that is your choice. I know my beliefs are real and that there is truth to them for me.

And you actually managed to bring up a good and interesting question when you were replying earlier to the answers I gave to some of your questions. You asked:

How would you differentiate predestination from a "grand design"?

Well, predestination is the idea that some intelligence out there already has decided for us how our lives are going to go, and in the case of the Christian belief, if you are going to go to Heaven or Hell. The idea of a "grand design" is that we all have our various parts to play in where we are in life, and that all of our lives are interconnected somehow. But we all have our own free will and the direction our lives take is ultimately up to us. Also, that we are where we are in life for a reason, because we have some lesson to learn from it all.

But you will hear many Wiccans and Pagans, from time to time, say things like that they are doing the "will of the gods" or something similar. I don't think that most of them think that they are literally doing what some other entity up in the sky wants them to do, as Christians tend to believe, but more that they are playing their part in the grand design, since we see the deities that we "worship" as manifestations or personifications of the "overall creative force" that I mentioned earlier. We do believe that we are here for a purpose, but we also acknowledge that we have choices in our lives that affect ourselves and others.