Defending the Truth

pensacola_niceman · 05-14-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

You are the only one laughing... Well, maybe Pensacola is too, but he laughs at everything.

I plead guilty to that

pensacola_niceman · 05-14-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

I figure as much. Though, I assumed that as someone who considers their self "Wiccan" you would have been able to provide a working definition of "Wiccan". Just as a Mahayana Buddhist and a Zen Buddhist, although containing very diverse differences in opinion and tradition, both can consider their selves under the heading of "Buddhist" and therefore in some fundamental way sharing a common belief.

I think the real question we should be focused on is what is funnier: dancing in the woods naked, or worshipping a smiley fat guy?

pensacola_niceman · 05-14-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

And I am that to the best of my ability.

I think the most important thing a Wiccan priest or priestess can do is to keep oneself in good physical shape. That way you won't gross people out whilst dancing in the woods naked.

pensacola_niceman · 05-14-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

Sounds like Gary is on the warpath here.

Sounds like Gary is the only one giving us a true detailed description of the Wiccan religion. What irony!

highway80west · 05-14-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman

Sounds like Gary is the only one giving us a true detailed description of the Wiccan religion. What irony!

Thay may be true, but I've learned from Ali what the Wiccan religion is all about.

As for other religions, we all know about the Anglicans/Episcopalians, such as what I am.

There is a player on the San Diego Padres, whose name is Khalil Greene (#3). He is of the Baha'i faith. They have no ministers, but he goes to a Baha'i center to pray and/or worship.

The BahÃ¡â€™Ã* Faith - The Web Site of the BahÃ¡â€™Ã* International Community

Interesting religion, huh?

Tigerwiccan · 05-14-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

Thay may be true, but I've learned from Ali what the Wiccan religion is all about.

As for other religions, we all know about the Anglicans/Episcopalians, such as what I am.

There is a player on the San Diego Padres, whose name is Khalil Greene (#3). He is of the Baha'i faith. They have no ministers, but he goes to a Baha'i center to pray and/or worship.

The BahÃ¡â€™Ã* Faith - The Web Site of the BahÃ¡â€™Ã* International Community

Interesting religion, huh?

Very interesting, and I agree with alot of their ideas.

highway80west · 05-14-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Very interesting, and I agree with alot of their ideas.

Yes. He is our shortstop, and wears #3. He is a very quiet individual. He hit a 3-run HR last night that landed on Waveland Ave. at Chicago's Wrigley Field.

When he first came on in 2004, the local paper described his faith and what it was. I found it to be very interesting.

This article appeared in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, which is in Broward and So. Palm Beach counties in Florida.

Greene leaves fans on a Baha'i note
Published March 12, 2005

TEMPE, Ariz. · Like any big-league ballplayer, Khalil Greene signs his share of autographs.

But unlike most of his contemporaries, Greene often finds himself expanding those awkward encounters with a brief discussion of religion.

Greene isn't just the San Diego Padres' flashy young shortstop. He isn't just one of two active players from Key West (joining Boston pitcher Bronson Arroyo).

Nor is his primary distinguishing characteristic his Prince Valiant haircut that leaves him looking a little like Hansel, Luke Wilson's character from Zoolander.

Rather, it's Greene's Baha'i faith that fascinates. It's not uncommon for fans to tell him they have investigated the religion after learning of his story.

"I've heard that," Greene says. "I think I'm extremely lucky to be in the position I'm in where my faith can be acknowledged and recognized just by me doing what I've always done. It hasn't been anything different."

Soft-spoken and respectful, Greene will patiently explain the Baha'i faith to anyone who asks. He might even invite them to one of the potluck dinners the church regularly holds.

"It's kind of hard to break down and generalize," he says. "It's a belief in a progressive revelation of religion. It's a lot of oneness of mankind and oneness of humanity and trying to bring one human climate. Trying to bring people together. All religions, ethnicity, gender, everything."

If ever there were a time for bringing people of various faiths together, it's now, with our world seemingly split more than ever along religious lines.

"Evolution of religion, that's basically what it is," Greene says. "I accept Christianity. I accept Judaism and Islam. [Baha'i] picks up on that and takes other things and applies them to what's going on now. It's very tolerant."

Greene, 25, grew up in the faith because of his parents: James, a woodworker, and Janet, an elementary-school teacher. They converted to the Bahai Faith after Greene's older sister, Anisa, was born, then named him Khalil Thabit, which means Steadfast Friend of God.

Greene's parents moved from Key West to Greenville, S.C., while he was attending nearby Clemson University, but they still get back to the Keys once a year.

With a continental base in Wilmette, Ill., and world headquarters in Haifa, Israel, the Baha'i faith has only been around since 1844.

It originated in Persia and has 5 million members worldwide, with 40 percent of those in India alone.

As Greene enjoyed a standout rookie season last summer, eventually losing a close vote to Pittsburgh outfielder Jason Bay for National League Rookie of the Year, he fielded more questions about his religious beliefs.

He does his best to fill in the blanks and satisfy curiosity.

For instance, does he pray?

"I pray for a lot of different things," he says. "There's a vast array of things that need improvement or guidance or any type of assistance. Spiritual qualities. Just being more steadfast."

He does not, however, try to convert strangers or teammates, calling the religion "more of an individual investigation of truth."

"I don't necessarily think I'm qualified for that at this time," he says. "It's not something I'm developed in. I don't try to be anything I'm not. I just do what I need to do."

Yet, by his mere job description, considering the fact he is on television 160 nights a year as a high-profile athlete, Greene is probably the MVB -- Most Valuable Baha'i -- in terms of future expansion. Greene's faith has been featured in national magazines, and he received a letter of commendation from local church members [sic] in San Diego.

"He's a good spokesman, a good representative of the faith," says Glen Fullmer, communications director for the Baha'i House of Worship in Illinois. "He always talks about his faith as a source of strength and inspiration."

Jazz trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie and actress Carole Lombard were Baha'i members. So are both members of the '70s pop group Seals & Crofts, Portuguese Olympic triple jumper Nelson Evora and English tennis player Miles Kasiri.

But a big-league ballplayer as a potential recruiting instrument is something new for the faith, which has just 150,000 members in the United States and only about a 33 percent adult recognition score among non-members.

"Whenever there's someone who can do something significant -- like play in the major leagues -- and reach a new sector of the population and talk about the faith," Fullmer says, "it's always going to have a positive impact."

While he doesn't seek that sort of spotlight, Greene understands and accepts it.

"That was something that was kind of a byproduct of what you do, in a very positive way," he says. "The fact is, to have my faith brought to light due to the fact you have some success, hopefully that will continue."

So keep the religious questions coming.

This devout shortstop can handle those just as smoothly as he does one-hop smashes to the hole.

garysher · 05-14-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot dragon

garysher;

I don't believe I am "trashing" (?) anyone's beliefs. I'm simply asking them to explain their beliefs and justify them.

i agree (strangely...) you are not trying to trash anything, and it is good to have a dialogue that has been more respectful than others i have had. problem is, you are going to get different answers from different people. this might look inadequate and lead you to conclude that wiccans/ pagans don't know their own religion. really, the differences highlight the richness of the religion.

Or the fact that wiccans are confused and easily swayed.

If wiccan is sich a powerful theology that people decide to base their whole lives on its tenets, why would they be shy about defending their faith??

go ask a few people on the street what they think wiccans or pagans believe and you won't need to ask this question.

If people on the street are so uninformed about wicca why don't wiccans explain themselves??!?

It seems a lot of people are desperate to play victim and seek sympathy instead of being strong and standing up for what they believe.

perhaps we just don't want to lose our job due to ignorant prejudice, or we don't want any gossip behind our backs. pehaps we are just comfortable enough with our own understanding of the world that we do not feel the need to push it.

So in other words, it's all somebody else's fault!

See how wicca and homosexuality are so closely linked??

Like I do.

few people stand up for what they believe in the same way you do, garysher.

True. I am constantly obliged to deal with lesser mortals. some of whom can't even use a quote feature.

garysher · 05-14-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

Why should anyone have to justify their beliefs to you?

But what I DON'T have to do for anyone, anywhere, at any time is "prove" that Wicca is a "real" religion.

If you don't want to think it is, then that is your choice. I know my beliefs are real and that there is truth to them for me.

Why so defensive?

See how your supposed bisexuality and wicca beliefs reveal so much about your deep-seated defensive victim status!

If you have really decided to base your life philosophy on wicca, why would you be so coy about discussing it with other people?

Could it be because you just want to appear "different"? Or maybe you don't fully understand what wicca is?

And you actually managed to bring up a good and interesting question when you were replying earlier to the answers I gave to some of your questions. You asked:

How would you differentiate predestination from a "grand design"?

Well, predestination is the idea that some intelligence out there already has decided for us how our lives are going to go, and in the case of the Christian belief, if you are going to go to Heaven or Hell. The idea of a "grand design" is that we all have our various parts to play in where we are in life, and that all of our lives are interconnected somehow. But we all have our own free will and the direction our lives take is ultimately up to us. Also, that we are where we are in life for a reason, because we have some lesson to learn from it all.

So what is the difference?

But you will hear many Wiccans and Pagans, from time to time, say things like that they are doing the "will of the gods" or something similar. I don't think that most of them think that they are literally doing what some other entity up in the sky wants them to do, as Christians tend to believe, but more that they are playing their part in the grand design, since we see the deities that we "worship" as manifestations or personifications of the "overall creative force" that I mentioned earlier. We do believe that we are here for a purpose, but we also acknowledge that we have choices in our lives that affect ourselves and others.

That is also Christian doctrine - men and women have free choice over believing in God and accepting redemption.

pensacola_niceman · 05-14-2008, 12:02 PM

I do have to agree with one thing that been presented on this thread. Why are Wiccans so ashamed of making their beliefs known? Can we compare this to a gay person hiding their sexuality in fear of reprisals with their jobs and community status?

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