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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 05-09-2008, 02:22 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
So in a Wiccan society would murder be justifiable because it is moral by the one who committed it?
No, because Wiccans live by what they call the Wiccan Rede, which is "If it harm none, do what you will." So we try to think of the consequences of our actions before we do anything.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:30 PM   #32 (permalink)
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So in a Wiccan society would murder be justifiable because it is moral by the one who committed it?
First, you'd have to define the context of what one considers 'murder', wouldn't you?

Just like our criminal system is, there are instances where one is justified in defending themselves or their property, which causes the death of another, that is perfectly acceptable...

And just as it's interpretted differently in mainstream religions, so is the perception of what is justifiable homocide.

Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but as diverse as other religions are in regards to 'hot topics' today, so is Wicca, Paganism, and other non-Christian based practices.

Just as it's not a simple 'one size fit all perspective' for any other religion or non-religion, you'll find the same divides as well in the Pagan and Wiccan paths.

Some follow a strict 'harm none' policy...Other's follow a strict 'harm none but do as you will policy', as well as follow a 'warrior-harm those that would harm you' policy...

What you're asking for basically is a 'one size fits all' explination and that can't even be found in Christianity so why think it would happen in Wicca? Or any other Pagan path LOL!
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
No, because Wiccans live by what they call the Wiccan Rede, which is "If it harm none, do what you will." So we try to think of the consequences of our actions before we do anything.
When you get treatment at an ER then refuse to pay the bill, others suffer harm because they have to pay for you.

How do you wriggle out of that?
Old 05-09-2008, 02:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
First, you'd have to define the context of what one considers 'murder', wouldn't you?

Just like our criminal system is, there are instances where one is justified in defending themselves or their property, which causes the death of another, that is perfectly acceptable...

And just as it's interpretted differently in mainstream religions, so is the perception of what is justifiable homocide.

Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but as diverse as other religions are in regards to 'hot topics' today, so is Wicca, Paganism, and other non-Christian based practices.

Just as it's not a simple 'one size fit all perspective' for any other religion or non-religion, you'll find the same divides as well in the Pagan and Wiccan paths.

Some follow a strict 'harm none' policy...Other's follow a strict 'harm none but do as you will policy', as well as follow a 'warrior-harm those that would harm you' policy...

What you're asking for basically is a 'one size fits all' explination and that can't even be found in Christianity so why think it would happen in Wicca? Or any other Pagan path LOL!

Was that a "yes" Ali?
Old 05-09-2008, 02:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
No, because Wiccans live by what they call the Wiccan Rede, which is "If it harm none, do what you will." So we try to think of the consequences of our actions before we do anything.
Although I understand what you're saying TW, I can also kinda see the point that some are trying to make in regards to your reply and justification of certain things you've done...

With all respect, in regards to your admittance of not paying medical bills and the insurance companies picking up the bill? You are actually doing the opposite of 'harm none, do as you will' at least from my perspective/understanding of that saying...

Basically, because you don't directly know the people that get effected by having to pick up the bill for non-payment of medical services, you feel you're not going against that particular creed. That's your viewpoint and one you're welcome to believe...

But in my understanding, from those within a Wiccan path, as well as coming from a Pagan point of view...One doesn't directly have to know those harmed, for harm not to have been caused. And the fact that due to the actions of those that don't pay their medical bills causes insurance/hospital rates to raise in order to suppliment those financial losses, it does cause harm for those that need medical treatment the most...

Our elderly and our children.

Because one of the main reasons insurance and medical help is so expensive to begin with is the losses from non-payment is filtered down to the consumer in higher insurance premiums, higher hospital/doctor office visits, and higher costs of medicines.

So the normal reaction of consumers when faced with those skyrocketing costs is not to get the medical help/medicines they need to begin with. So we have people choosing between heating, eating, or medicine/life saving medical help and they're choosing the heating/eating instead.

You may comfort yourself with you're doing it with full knowledge of your actions...But you do seem to be forgetting the other portion of the creed in the process...Because you're not taking fully into consideration of the harm your choice is doing to others in the process.

I'm sure you're willing to take the consequences for your actions...But that doesn't help those you've harmed unintentionally at the time you're doing as you do in regards to taking advantage of medical treatment without putting back into that collective pot financially for the betterment of others in your community who could use it themselves...
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:05 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
When you get treatment at an ER then refuse to pay the bill, others suffer harm because they have to pay for you.

How do you wriggle out of that?
I don't. Sometimes we can't help but do harm. It's part of life. We kill animals to eat them. We get jobs that other people certainly needed as bad as we did. But you try to do the least harm possible, and take responsibility for your actions.
Old 05-09-2008, 03:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
I don't. Sometimes we can't help but do harm. It's part of life. We kill animals to eat them. We get jobs that other people certainly needed as bad as we did. But you try to do the least harm possible, and take responsibility for your actions.

Why don't YOU take responsibility and pay your bills?

Instead of expecting others to pay your bills for you?
Old 05-09-2008, 03:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Although I understand what you're saying TW, I can also kinda see the point that some are trying to make in regards to your reply and justification of certain things you've done...

With all respect, in regards to your admittance of not paying medical bills and the insurance companies picking up the bill? You are actually doing the opposite of 'harm none, do as you will' at least from my perspective/understanding of that saying...

Basically, because you don't directly know the people that get effected by having to pick up the bill for non-payment of medical services, you feel you're not going against that particular creed. That's your viewpoint and one you're welcome to believe...

But in my understanding, from those within a Wiccan path, as well as coming from a Pagan point of view...One doesn't directly have to know those harmed, for harm not to have been caused. And the fact that due to the actions of those that don't pay their medical bills causes insurance/hospital rates to raise in order to suppliment those financial losses, it does cause harm for those that need medical treatment the most...

Our elderly and our children.

Because one of the main reasons insurance and medical help is so expensive to begin with is the losses from non-payment is filtered down to the consumer in higher insurance premiums, higher hospital/doctor office visits, and higher costs of medicines.

So the normal reaction of consumers when faced with those skyrocketing costs is not to get the medical help/medicines they need to begin with. So we have people choosing between heating, eating, or medicine/life saving medical help and they're choosing the heating/eating instead.

You may comfort yourself with you're doing it with full knowledge of your actions...But you do seem to be forgetting the other portion of the creed in the process...Because you're not taking fully into consideration of the harm your choice is doing to others in the process.

I'm sure you're willing to take the consequences for your actions...But that doesn't help those you've harmed unintentionally at the time you're doing as you do in regards to taking advantage of medical treatment without putting back into that collective pot financially for the betterment of others in your community who could use it themselves...
Quite right Ali.

What would happen if everybody stopped paying their ER bills?

Thank you for helping me expose this fraudulent malingerer.
Old 05-09-2008, 03:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Why don't YOU take responsibility and pay your bills?

Instead of expecting others to pay your bills for you?
Because I'd rather eat, ya know?
Old 05-09-2008, 03:27 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
Because I'd rather eat, ya know?

Then pay over time. Get a decent job. Don't be a flake.

How do you provide for your new wife? Or does she keep you?
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