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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 05-09-2008, 02:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Although I understand what you're saying TW, I can also kinda see the point that some are trying to make in regards to your reply and justification of certain things you've done...

With all respect, in regards to your admittance of not paying medical bills and the insurance companies picking up the bill? You are actually doing the opposite of 'harm none, do as you will' at least from my perspective/understanding of that saying...

Basically, because you don't directly know the people that get effected by having to pick up the bill for non-payment of medical services, you feel you're not going against that particular creed. That's your viewpoint and one you're welcome to believe...

But in my understanding, from those within a Wiccan path, as well as coming from a Pagan point of view...One doesn't directly have to know those harmed, for harm not to have been caused. And the fact that due to the actions of those that don't pay their medical bills causes insurance/hospital rates to raise in order to suppliment those financial losses, it does cause harm for those that need medical treatment the most...

Our elderly and our children.

Because one of the main reasons insurance and medical help is so expensive to begin with is the losses from non-payment is filtered down to the consumer in higher insurance premiums, higher hospital/doctor office visits, and higher costs of medicines.

So the normal reaction of consumers when faced with those skyrocketing costs is not to get the medical help/medicines they need to begin with. So we have people choosing between heating, eating, or medicine/life saving medical help and they're choosing the heating/eating instead.

You may comfort yourself with you're doing it with full knowledge of your actions...But you do seem to be forgetting the other portion of the creed in the process...Because you're not taking fully into consideration of the harm your choice is doing to others in the process.

I'm sure you're willing to take the consequences for your actions...But that doesn't help those you've harmed unintentionally at the time you're doing as you do in regards to taking advantage of medical treatment without putting back into that collective pot financially for the betterment of others in your community who could use it themselves...
"Harm none" means TRY NOT to harm anyone. If it is a choice to either eat and have power in my apartment, or pay my medical bills for services I have already gotten, it's not a very hard choice for me. Either way, some harm is going to be done, but I need to take care of myself, right?
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:28 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Because I'd rather eat, ya know?
Heck, even I had to skip medications because of gas costs and food costs. I am guilty of that, but then what choice and sacrifices do we have, TW? I salute your way of responding to Gary's posts.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
Old 05-09-2008, 02:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Then pay over time. Get a decent job. Don't be a flake.

How do you provide for your new wife? Or does she keep you?
I have a pretty decent job and I'm paying for enough over time as it is. And you make my point for me, because I'd rather help provide for my family than pay medical bills.
Old 05-09-2008, 02:42 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I have a pretty decent job and I'm paying for enough over time as it is. And you make my point for me, because I'd rather help provide for my family than pay medical bills.
If you have a decent job, then there's no excuse why not to pay your bills, even the medical bills...

And by paying those medical bills, you help your family out in many ways...Showing them how to be responsible for one tops the list of how you help them...

Paying your delinquent bills in the end also helps with providing cheaper insurance for your family...Instead of causing the cost to rise to the consumers through non-payment.

And last, but not least...By acting FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE, by paying bills you've created, you show society that Wiccans in general are beneficial to society on whole...Not those that drain/use/take and don't give back.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:46 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Heck, even I had to skip medications because of gas costs and food costs. I am guilty of that, but then what choice and sacrifices do we have, TW? I salute your way of responding to Gary's posts.
Skipping out on medicines isn't in the same catagory of skipping out on bills Highway...

In fact, if less people skipped out on the medical bills, you'd actually be able to afford your medications...But as long as those skipping out help to encourage the costs of medical insurance/prescriptions/visits rise, the more people who will find themselves able to purchase their medicines period...

Before, it was just the poor that couldn't get the services...Now it's working class people as well. Sure, fuel/food costs add to the problem...But not the main part of the problem. The main cause is non-medical payments driving up the costs of medical help/supplies/prescriptions more-so.
Old 05-09-2008, 02:53 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
If you have a decent job, then there's no excuse why not to pay your bills, even the medical bills...

And by paying those medical bills, you help your family out in many ways...Showing them how to be responsible for one tops the list of how you help them...

Paying your delinquent bills in the end also helps with providing cheaper insurance for your family...Instead of causing the cost to rise to the consumers through non-payment.

And last, but not least...By acting FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE, by paying bills you've created, you show society that Wiccans in general are beneficial to society on whole...Not those that drain/use/take and don't give back.
I'm sorry if I hit a sore spot for you, as it seems that I have (why else would you be on GARY'S side of an issue), but I do what I can with the money I have. I haven't always made the best financial decisions, that's true, but I am by no means a leech of any kind. I contribute where I can and I do show that Wiccans care about others around them. We all have weaknesses, however. One of mine happens to be with finances. Again, if that's a pet peave of yours, I'm sorry, but please don't say that I'm not a typical Wiccan just because I have money issues.
Old 05-09-2008, 02:57 PM   #47 (permalink)
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"Harm none" means TRY NOT to harm anyone. If it is a choice to either eat and have power in my apartment, or pay my medical bills for services I have already gotten, it's not a very hard choice for me. Either way, some harm is going to be done, but I need to take care of myself, right?

In a sensible person's manner, one that wishes to cause the least harm as possible, then they'd skip going to the ER in the first place...Because the path of least harm is to not create a harmful situation for others in the fist place.

I'm sorry WT, but what you are doing here is simply making up excuses to justify your lack of community responsibility. It might work for you to pretend it's 'not all that bad', but when I have to listen to people who can't get medical help or medicines, I get to see you blatently disregarding the welfare of others in order to feed your selfishness and self-centered thinking...

You have a right to care for yourself and your family...But not at the expense of others or make your actions a burden to others. There's other ways to have what you want, and still act responsibly in the process that is a benefit to all. Not just yourself or family members.

If it's only $5-$20 a week/month till it's paid off, at least then you're attempting to balance the scale for other's to get help as well. And showing financial responsibility by owning up to your debts by paying them off.

And it's really sad that you're trying to justify it, by claiming 'religious perspective' when your choice has nothing what-so-ever to do with any religion period.

Your a thief...A common thief at that. Stealing from society in general and then claiming 'I have more important things to do'...And thieves come from every religion but at least the majority of them don't claim they have a religious right to commit theft. It's really sad too...Because I honestly believe you're better then that and capable of being so much more.

But you'd rather abuse society and cry 'my beliefs allow me' rather then face yourself and your actions...And admit that what you do is what it is...Taking advantage of the system for your own personal gain and your lack of caring for the community or people effected by your illegal/questionable actions of system abuse.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:57 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
I have a pretty decent job and I'm paying for enough over time as it is. And you make my point for me, because I'd rather help provide for my family than pay medical bills.

How can you provide for your family if you can't pay medical bills?

How long is it since you incurred these bills? Are you trying to tell us you haven't been able to repay a single penny? Or you didn't even try?

Isn't it irresponsible of you to get married if you can't provide adequately? Why not wait till you get a skill and a decent job?

Do you have a plasma TV?
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Doggone it darn right you betcha bless your heart maverick
Old 05-09-2008, 02:58 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
If you have a decent job, then there's no excuse why not to pay your bills, even the medical bills...

And by paying those medical bills, you help your family out in many ways...Showing them how to be responsible for one tops the list of how you help them...

Paying your delinquent bills in the end also helps with providing cheaper insurance for your family...Instead of causing the cost to rise to the consumers through non-payment.

And last, but not least...By acting FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE, by paying bills you've created, you show society that Wiccans in general are beneficial to society on whole...Not those that drain/use/take and don't give back.
One thing a person has to think about is his or her credit rating score by companies like Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. Those who are delinquent will see that there scores go down, and that could hurt chances of getting loans, credit cards, etc.

As I have always paid my bills on time, it is a reason that my credit score is very high. Though I am not trying to brag about it. I borrow, I pay. Simple as that.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:59 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Skipping out on medicines isn't in the same catagory of skipping out on bills Highway...

In fact, if less people skipped out on the medical bills, you'd actually be able to afford your medications...But as long as those skipping out help to encourage the costs of medical insurance/prescriptions/visits rise, the more people who will find themselves able to purchase their medicines period...

Before, it was just the poor that couldn't get the services...Now it's working class people as well. Sure, fuel/food costs add to the problem...But not the main part of the problem. The main cause is non-medical payments driving up the costs of medical help/supplies/prescriptions more-so.
Well, certainly it isn't. I am due for medical tests later this month followed by a visit to the doc.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
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