We are supposd to be a nation where everyone can practice their religion without government interference, but sadly that is being taken away by the new age movement.

True.
But those IN CHARGE of the church acted as accomplices in covering it up, and shipping off the priests to new victims.


WOAH! Hold the phone.
WHERE do you get this claim from?
From what I have seen, there was virtually NO attempt to "rehabilitate" these offenders. Most of the "attempt" seems to center around RELIGIOUS rehabilitation, which would be devoid of "psychiatric advice".


On the flip side, maybe we should ask why the church is hiding and abetting pedophiles. And then trying to hide these CRIMES under a pretense of first amendment freedom of religion protection.

To some degree, I see some of these bills as a compromise. The church is being hounded because the churches are the ONES who held themselves above "the same standard" of other groups.

A psychiatrist and medical doctor MUST violate any "doctor/patient" confidentiality if they suspect child abuse. Why do the clergy get NOT ONLY a free pass on this requirement, but ALSO a free pass for AIDING AND ABETTING criminal acts?

I'm curious why the churches themselves aren't being prosecuted. Quite frankly, they should see this situation as a compromise and a warning. Give up the pedophiles, and don't ever try these heinous deeds again...

If you really want to know why the churches are being singled out, then you're really not thinking of the big picture. They're being singled out because THEY are the ones who were at the center of these heinous deeds...


Talk about your false dilemmas...

Who the heck is talking about "throwing the baby out" in the first place?
"denying the poor and the indigent" is not a consequence of having the Catholic hospital serve certain medical options that are said to be required.


Fine. Let's keep the "church and state" separate.
Get your churches out of the hospital business and serving only the "religion" then.
It is the CHURCHES who are stepping into state territory by delving into the medical community. Not vice versa...

People CAN practice their religion, within the confines of their own lives.

It's when they try to practice their religion WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT that they run into problems.
It's when they try to practice their religion WITHIN THE MEDICAL field that they run into problems.
It's when they try to practice their religion TO IMPOSE ON OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES that they run into problems.

It is when the government is forcing them to do something which goes against their beliefs. Forcing a Catholic hospital to provide the morning after pill is the same as forcing them to commit murder.

The hospital is right in closing down rather than giving in to pressure to commit evil.



I really don't believe you have thought that one through. Do you have any idea how many hospitals are religious?

Why is it so important to force a private institution to do something against its principles?

It is very revealing that you would rather shut down all the private hospitals and deny the myriad of services they provide to the public (at little to no expense to the taxpayers), than allow them to retain their principles on a few issues.

Some would have religious morals stricken from playing any part in the formation of our laws. However, this begs the question; "Whose morals, then are we to use?"

And what would those laws look like? On what philosophical basis would they be formed?

At some point, somebody has to form a basis for what is deemed to be good and what is not. If it is a philosophy based on majority opinion, then mob rules and the rights of the weak are trampled. If it is a philosophy based on human reason alone, then it is changeable and inconsistent - justice is not served (assuming that the new philosophy considers justice to be a good).

Only religious morals offer a philosophical basis formed on absolute, unchanging truths. Given these boundaries it can create just, unchanging laws that respect all people.

Based on the above, I do not agree that a total separation of church from state is a prudent or good course of action.

Then have somebody on sight, or on call, who can do it.
This isn't rocket science. It's more common sense.


And that is another option.
If they refuse to do the job, allow for some other hospital to establish itself in the area which can do the job.

But on another note, can you point to hospitals which have shut down over this issue?


A few I imagine.
Personally, I don't think the religious hospitals have thought the issue through.
Do they realize that they might have a rape victim brought to their door who could need the morning after pill?

Oh wait. They may not even care about the rape victim's wishes...


The importance is not in the "forcing", but in the option being available.
THAT is the important factor here.


Woah!
Talk about straw-man arguments.
I never said anything about "rather shutting down all the private hospitals".

Would you like to debate what I DID say? Or just argue with something you're going to pretend I said?

But regardless, I think your argument can be reversed. It is rather telling that the "private hospitals" might choose to shut down, refusing service to HUNDREDS, just because the occasional patient may want a service that they don't like.

I would be one of those.
Secular "morality" would be used.
Freedom of religion needs to include freedom to NOT follow a law that is present just because of a religion...


What would those laws look like? A lot of them would be exactly the same as we have right now. Laws against murder, rape, incest, theft, assault, etc...


How is justice not served if "human reason alone" is used?
Justice doesn't have to be rigid and unchangeable.
No system that I know of has rigid and unchangeable laws.


1) Why do you insist on "absolute, unchanging"? I see no reason to insist on that. In fact, I see plenty of reasons to be against that.
Just look at the Bible. Could you imagine if we were "absolute, unchanging" with regards to that? Misogyny would still be espoused. Absurd laws like legalized rape (if you pay the father a few shekels) would still be around.
We NEED to evolve our laws as our reality evolves and as we become smarter as a people.
2) "truths"? Try BELIEFS. Not "truths".
3) And religious laws that "respect all people"?
What religion are we talking about here?
Please don't make me laugh by saying Christianity...


We currently live with separation of church and state.
Can you point to any specific issues that you have where justice CANNOT be served with separation of church and state?

There are thousands of graves with crosses in Arlington Cemetary. There are biblical inscriptions on the inner staircase of the Washington Monument and at the top it says Praise the Lord. There is a scupture of Moses holding the 10 commandments on the Supreme Court building. There is a chaplain who leads the congress in prayer. There is all kinds of religous symbols and practices in goverment. Keep trying.

Separation of church and state does not exist in the USA. That is a myth.

Bullshit.