Originally Posted by Katczinsky

Just what are you talking about? Unspecific generalities aren't evidence of anything besides your inadequate defense.




The vast majority of third-world countries are attempting to bring themselves out of poverty via capitalistic modes of production but are not only failing miserably but are getting worse.



The only proven historical fact of this is that laissez-faire always necessitates socialization in order to avoid collapse. Laissez-faire is merely the exacerbation of the imbalance that is capitalism, which on the other end of the spectrum seeks to consistently revolutionize its material conditions to avoid internal balance.

Originally Posted by cactusman

The problem is not the form of government, but that man is running it. Thats like a fat man blaming McDonalds for making him fat. Without God involved, all forms of government will be corrupt.

Capitalism, communism, theocracy, socialism and all others don't work if the people running the show are corrupt. I'm totally for capitalism and free trade, but I do feel that we need to: take care the in need, clothe the naked, feed the starving, etc.

I don't want a government telling me how much I need to contribute through taxation. I don't want the gov't trying to manage my life. I don't like the idea of being monitored by the secret police. It is no wonder that still so many people are willing to pack up everything, leave their native lands, and come to America.

Originally Posted by garysher

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

Again you express your complete ignorance of the subject.

Marx, Engels, and Lenin all fought against this "utopianism" perhaps almost as strongly as they did against capitalism.

History hasn't shown us how corruptible communism is, it has shown us how corruptible capitalism is. Let's forget the fact that there hasn't been an example of true communism or socialism in the history of the world. Every attempt at true capitalism, however, degenerated into a corrupt dystopian landscape of wage slavery. This country's earlier experiences with laissez-faire expressed the need of government intervention and labor organization.

China is not communist but arguably has a freer market than in the United States.

I have read the Constitution, the federalist papers, and other works done by our 'founders'. I found them to be progressive and liberating for the times but indeed outmoded today. Perhaps if you read anything in length by Marx, Engels, Lenin, or Trotsky you would understand the true nature of socialist thought.