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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 06-29-2008, 04:27 AM   #141 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
As a child, did you have to be taught to lie? To be selfish? To covet? ect ect
Yes.

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Not only was he able, he did just that.
So...there doesn't exist sin?

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You know, he was being perfectly civil, just cause you disagree with him, doesnt mean you have to twist his words to say things he wasnt saying. Its litteraly amazing the hate people have for anyone who says Christ is there God.
Indeed he was being civil; as was I. I was asking a genuine question to clarify his point. The fact that you seem to interpret this as "hate" is perhaps telling.

He (or she?) said "This means that we are not perfect, like God, and have died spiritually."

The unnecessary comma insinuated that we are not perfect (nor is God). In retrospect, now that you point it out, the tone of his sentence can also read that we are not perfect (but God is). Hence the limitations of internet debate, where tones are ambiguous and entire points of argument misunderstood.

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I have wittnessed these miricals right before my eyes. It happens, wether you want to believe it or not.
Unfortunately the evidence of hearsay and unspecific subjective interpretations of memories of events are very far from being adequate substantiation for anything, let alone something as grand as divine intervention. The "it happens, whether you believe it or not" is a classic cop-out by those of the faithful persuasion, because incidentally I can just say the same exact thing back to you and it would have just as much credibility (or lack thereof).

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Do we really have to explain AGAIN, the difference between old test Jewish law, and what Christ acomplished at the cross?? Never mind, its obvious at this point to WANT to be ignorant of it.
No, I understand your point of view perfectly. Perhaps you missed the whole "it's in the Bible" thing. I never said modern day Christians had to follow old law, just that it was in the Bible

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Yea, based on HIS shed blood, not anyone elses.
Your point? It's irrelevant to the original point I made; the story of Jesus is one of blood sacrifice, and Christians are obsessed with it. I'm not surprised that Mel Gibson's The Passion was the best selling and most viewed Jesus film in the history of cinema.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 06-29-2008, 09:15 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Wrong.

The thread started with a banal and rather naive little video clip which tried to reduce God to man's puny level of reasoning.

Read post #5 for a demolition job on the original video
You're quite right, although I don't particularly care to have you equate my level of reasoning with yours. You have my apologies for what they are worth. Ever think of actually trying to answer the questions in that video instead of making up excuses?

I was prompted to join this bruhaha by a post of yours further down the line even past the point where you were making excuses for baby murdering demons and were berating others for refusing to believe in your death cult.
Old 06-29-2008, 09:20 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Again, you get angry and frustrated because God is far too complex a concept for you to begin to grasp.
Angry? Me? You and your magic buddy don't have that power over me I'm afraid. God is not too complex for me to grasp, a pretend sky daddy who is used by a bunch of bronze age shepherds as an excuse to kill their neighbors and take their lands is a relatively simple concept. What's hard to understand is how a person with a functioning brain could choose to worship it instead of working to fix what's wrong in the world.

So tell us again why you prefer to point and laugh at us heathens when you could be praying for our poor souls again? Your pretense at holiness fails miserably.
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:29 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Why dont you just answer the question??
Tell you what Gracie...It's bad enough that Gary pretends that a question wasn't answered, when it was...But it's even worse when people like yourself come behind them and try to pass off the same lie as well...

Tirya DID answer his question...And like she said, the fact that neither of you like the answer is ya'lls problem, not hers...

So since you conviently IGNORED the fact that she answered and pointed to where she did answer TWICE...Here's her post that you IGNORED pointing to where she DID answer.

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Originally Posted by Tirya View Post
I haven't dodged anything - I've answered your question on more than one occasion. The fact that you don't like my answer is your problem, not mine.

Ref: posts #91, #103
Old 06-29-2008, 02:29 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tanndarr View Post
You're quite right, although I don't particularly care to have you equate my level of reasoning with yours. You have my apologies for what they are worth. Ever think of actually trying to answer the questions in that video instead of making up excuses?


As I said in post #5, those 10 questions were all vacuous, naive leading questions that completely avoid the real issue.

It's like trying to explain how an automatic transmission works by criticising a horse-drawn cart.




I was prompted to join this bruhaha by a post of yours further down the line even past the point where you were making excuses for baby murdering demons


Where did I do that?


and were berating others for refusing to believe in your death cult.
Lay off the hysteria bottle!

I was berating others for failing to explain why those ancient mythical gods have all but disappeared whilst the true God is still worshipped by billions of people.

You make the same mistake as tad and many others - you get angry at God for the mistakes and the sins of his followers.

You have to try and look past that.

(and the word is "brouhaha")
Old 06-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Tell you what Gracie...It's bad enough that Gary pretends that a question wasn't answered, when it was....

Really Ali?

What was the answer? As I subsequently said, I re-read those posts and couldn't find an answer, so perhaps you could enlighten us?
Old 06-29-2008, 03:11 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
As I said in post #5, those 10 questions were all vacuous, naive leading questions that completely avoid the real issue.
Sounds like a convenient excuse to avoid examining your God to see if he's worthy of your worship. So your God is all real and stuff and everyone else's is all fake...'kay, got that. But he doesn't bear close examination...don't look at the man behind the curtain folks...he's just there to sidetrack us from the real issue...
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Lay off the hysteria bottle!

Please. Could you possibly address the argument...maybe if you were a little less hysterical...try breathing into a paper bag until you calm down and the delusions stop.
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I was berating others for failing to explain why those ancient mythical gods have all but disappeared whilst the true God is still worshipped by billions of people.
Mind sharing the chapter and verse where Jesus tells you to berate others who don't agree with you? You're a sanctimonious hypocrite. If you really believed what you're preaching you'd be praying for the conversion of all those poor pagans instead of failing miserably at attempts to prove your superiority.
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You make the same mistake as tad and many others - you get angry at God for the mistakes and the sins of his followers.
I'm not angry at anyone, and certainly not at a bronze-age imaginary sky-daddy or his chosen zealots. In the off chance that you're actually right and some day I appear before the throne of judgment then I would much rather stand and face God's wrath than kneel and swallow.

Enjoy your time in heaven, I'd rather burn in hell for eternity than worship something that would create such a place.

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(and the word is "brouhaha")
It's poor internet etiquette to correct spelling when the meaning is plain. I guess you need whatever little wins you can get though. Certainly easier than turning the other cheek.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:45 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanndarr View Post
Sounds like a convenient excuse to avoid examining your God to see if he's worthy of your worship. So your God is all real and stuff and everyone else's is all fake...'kay, got that. But he doesn't bear close examination...don't look at the man behind the curtain folks...he's just there to sidetrack us from the real issue...

What is the 'real issue' in your childish opinion - that God doesn't replace amputees limbs??

Creating the Universe and everything in it, including me, is enough as far as I'm concerned.

But feel free to continue with you juvenile spluttering!!






Mind sharing the chapter and verse where Jesus tells you to berate others who don't agree with you? You're a sanctimonious hypocrite. If you really believed what you're preaching you'd be praying for the conversion of all those poor pagans instead of failing miserably at attempts to prove your superiority.

How do you know I'm not praying for that?

But once again you resort to personal attacks to divert attention from your lack of a counterpoint.






I'm not angry at anyone, and certainly not at a bronze-age imaginary sky-daddy or his chosen zealots. In the off chance that you're actually right and some day I appear before the throne of judgment then I would much rather stand and face God's wrath than kneel and swallow.

Enjoy your time in heaven, I'd rather burn in hell for eternity than worship something that would create such a place.

More childish little quips.

No doubt you refused to eat your veggies and got sent to bed early as a kid!




It's poor internet etiquette to correct spelling when the meaning is plain. I guess you need whatever little wins you can get though. Certainly easier than turning the other cheek.
No need to thank me for improving your tacit grasp of the English language (or French in this case).
Old 06-30-2008, 10:42 AM   #149 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tanndarr View Post
Nice way to play the martyr card. Why don't you scroll back to message one and see how this whole thread started because a Christian decided to tell the forum how he had the only true god. Nobody has told you who to worship, but some folks have objected quite loudly to having holier-than-thou Christians telling us who we should be worshiping.
Maybe your friend god should stop making promises he has no intention of delivering. What was the line again? Oh yeah...John 14:13: Whatever you ask in My name that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
How very sanctimonious of you. You assume than anyone who doesn't share your belief has never honestly looked for spiritual enlightenment. If you really believed in what you say you follow you'd be on your knees praying that the blind heathens would be enlightened; but you'd obviously rather come here and stroke your own ego instead.
Your God seems quite adept at killing pagan children himself or at least ordering his faithful to do it. Tell me, how hard were the hearts of those baby Amalakites? Not harder than the sharp bronze of the righteous soldiers that slaughtered them obviously. You and I have different ideas of what a hardened heart is. I'm glad I don't have your kind of heart that can sit there and make excuses for something that would slaughter children and pretend to be holy. I bet you read that chapter every night. Do you go to sleep, drowsily smiling and hoping for the day the God of Love calls you to show your faith by killing children? Sweet dreams.
I haven't noticed any Buddhists around here telling me how they have the only true religion. Could that possibly have something to do with it?

If you want to make a polite case for your faith then go ahead, you might even find a polite conversation if you simply show the same respect for others that you would like to have shown to you. Did you read the part in that book of yours about the Golden Rule...it's a really good idea, and not the only one in the thing if you can tear yourself away from the slaughtering, rape and bigotry in the other parts.

But if you'd rather whine about how poor Christians are so hated and despised go right ahead. I don't despise Christians, but I could make an exception just for you if you like.
So, what do you believe?

What respect have you shown me? You mock me and my faith based on principles that I have no control over. You, not you personally, but others, say that the church is this and Christians are that, when the Bible specifically tells us not to put pour faith in anything other than God.

God is something you can not understand or even grasp, so you disregard Him for something easier to swallow. You can't handle that you are not the god of your own life, and that something else dictates the decisions in your life.

What rape of bigotry? The Bible says don't trust in man, church, or priests/pastors. It says to trust in God only.

I pray for you guys every day. My prayer is that you would have a blessed life that allows you to be content and healthy. I have no axe to grind with you. I certainly don't wish any harm on you. I would help you in any way you need it, and I don't even know what you look like. I don't want anything in return. I don't want any recognition, other than respect for me .

I go out and give my time and money to help the poor, widows, sick, elderly, diseased, homeless, retarded. I don't ask for anything in return. I am a humble mn, and wnat nothing in return. I try to explain my faith to you as I see, in accordance with the Bible. You don't want to hear it. I have not called you names or mocked your beliefs, but you do mine. So, I ask again. What do you believe?

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Old 06-30-2008, 01:22 PM   #150 (permalink)
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So is sin committed through an act of free will or through merely being? In short, is culpability placed on a human merely by virtue of how such a 'glorious God' created man in the first place?

Presumably an all-powerful God would be able to create a better world without sin, no?



So wait, God is not perfect now?



So God eventually fulfills this equality of love through the eternal suffering of the non-believing?



First of all, let's forget the fact that these claims are totally unsubstantiated and their weight incidentally completely depends on their being so. There may be Christian doctors and physicians, but ask pretty much any doctor and they will believe in the treatment of patients through the humanly practice of medicine over faith healing. I've never heard of a confirmed case of faith healing, however I have heard many stories of children dying because their parents were ignorant and backward enough to think their omniscient invisible friend would save them.



And not believing; all of which is punishable by death, according to the bible. I guess we're just supposed to 'lovingly' kill infidels. Look how well that worked out in the Middle Ages.



Please, the entire fulfillment story of Jesus, which even you incidentally cite, is based on a conception of blood sacrifice. Not to mention the Biblical God himself is just as or more vengeful of his own creations than any other deity.



I can't put a defense on behalf of pagans, because I agree that religion is bloody. However one thing you don't seem to realize is that historically such atrocities peaked when committed in the name of the Abrahamic traditions; Christianity being arguably the bloodiest. Nothing the pagans ever did even comes close to being compared with the mass continental campaigns of persecution, murder, and genocide undertaken by Christian authorities in the past.
God made everything perfect in the beginning. The Bible states that everything was good in the eyes of God. Man sinned by disobeying God and obeying Satan, in the form of a serpent. Adam and Eve fell from glory and entered into death. We are the seed of Adam and Eve and so have inherited the sin nature. Isn't it ironic that we much teach children not to steal or kill? You may call instinctual survival skills, but the Bible calls it sin. You may say that it is not normal behavior, but evil begets more evil. So what if a child steals a toy. Isn't rape stealing someone's right from not being sexually violated? Isn't murder stealing a life? This is the problem with our society, today. People don't want to stop others from doing evil, because it might infringe on their civil rights.

I did not imply God is not perfect. Don't twist my words. I meant that we are not perfect UNlike God who is. Better stated for your approval?

We choose our own destiny. God came down and died freely for us. We did nothing to earn His favor. I have done nothing to earn His favor. I don't deserve His favor. We can go to hell if we choose; it is all up to us.

I'm not speaking of some tent revival with flailing hands and screaching voices. I'm speaking of people being miraculously cured of terminal illness. The doctors didn't cast a spell or something weird. Someone was scheduled to die, but now they're cured. It does happen. Many people die in hospitals, each year, by catching a disease while in the hospital. I'm not advocating not going to hospitals; only stating facts.

The Bible does not state that we must kill anyone. Actually, the Bible states that we must:forgive all wrong doing to us, love our enemies, turn the other cheek, offer up everything to those in need, not be vengeful, etc. The list goes on, and on, and on, and on... Jesus also said that those who call themselves believers, but do not keep His commandments,are liars.

It was Christ Jesus who offered His own life. He did not unsuspectingly take the life of another.

Where is your evidence that atrocities peaked during Abrahamic traditions? What are Abrahamic traditions? If you speak of Jews conquering their land, then feel at ease; because Hitler evened the odds. Stalin evened the odds. The Romans evened the odds. The Muslims are still evening the odds. In the last one hundred years, atrocities in the name Atheism have skyrocketed to over 50, 000,000, not to mention abortion bring another 40,000,000. Not even the Assyrians, who invented many of the torture devices still being implemented today, would not kill their own children in the name of humanity.
The Jews have been kicked around, off and on, for 3,500 years. Christians have been persecuted since the beginning. It is only America, and a handful of 'white' nations, that don't brutally persecute Christians.
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