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ACLU: Kick Jesus Out of High School

Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 07-07-2006, 06:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Jaxian,

You just asked Alias to read somebody else's opinion who he doesn't agree with...
Good luck with that.
Experience has taught that he will completely ignore your words and blindly disregard them without a thought.

Be prepared for him to do nothing more than repeat the same things he has already said over and over again with no regard to what you have actually said.

Just warning you...
Foundit66
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
It's called freedom. Try it some time. I should have the freedom to send my kid to school where I choose. Get the government and politics out of our schools.
Which is all well and good, in a private school. Public schools are FUNDED by the government, so they have to follow certain guidelines, like the First Amendment of the Constitution.
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
I get a kick out of you accusing me of things that you are clearly guilty of.
These people HAVE freedom of religion.
Hanging a picture of Jesus in a GOVERNMENT school house is not a "freedom of religion". It's an act of governmental endorsement.
Whether or not you admit it is irrelevant. The act of governmental endorsement is why it is unconstitutional.

Whether or not you comprehend that is also irrelevant.



You really can't help but hear whatever you want to...
No matter what I ACTUALLY say and ACTUALLY mean, you'll interpret whatever is convenient for you.

The "ten commandments" and "cross" themselves ARE NOT eye-sores.
The ALABAMA ten commandments and the MOUNT SOLEDAD cross are eye-sores. Huge honking monuments which I challenge you to find ANY church that put them up on their own property.

If a Christian church doesn't even want these over-sized monstrosities on their property, WHY should we place it on governmental property?



Yes. People have a right to express their beliefs. But WHERE they express their beliefs is NOT guaranteed.
If I put a religious symbol on your garage, you could prosecute me for vandalism.
I don't see why we don't do the same thing for Christians who inappropriately place crap on governmental property when it's unconstitutional.

We've been over this before.
Establishment clause.
Separation of church and state.
At the end of the arguments, you ADMITTED separation of church and state was real.
Is there some reason that you don't remember that?
It is not an act of government endoresement. It is an act of freedom. You now have the opportunity to show me in the constitution where it says it is government endoresement. Please proceed.
Old 07-07-2006, 07:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
Which is all well and good, in a private school. Public schools are FUNDED by the government, so they have to follow certain guidelines, like the First Amendment of the Constitution.
Show me in the constitution where it says that.
Old 07-07-2006, 07:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Show me in the constitution where it says that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constitution of the United States, Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Well?
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Old 07-07-2006, 09:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
It is not an act of government endoresement. It is an act of freedom.
When a government body puts a picture of Jesus up on their wall, it IS an act of governmental endorsement.
Whether or not you realize or admit that is irrelevant.

This isn't about "freedom" because people don't own the walls of the governmental buildings. You are no more "free" to express your religion on the wall of a governmental building than I am "free" to express my religion on the side of your home.

It's just that simple, but you keep ignoring it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
You now have the opportunity to show me in the constitution where it says it is government endoresement. Please proceed.
See Dylan's post above.
It's the establishment clause which forbids governmental endorsement of religion.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
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Old 07-08-2006, 10:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
Well?
Well what? It's not there. Christians are not asking government to establish a religion. They are demanding that government allow them to FREELY exercise their religion. Try again.
Old 07-08-2006, 10:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
When a government body puts a picture of Jesus up on their wall, it IS an act of governmental endorsement.
Whether or not you realize or admit that is irrelevant.

This isn't about "freedom" because people don't own the walls of the governmental buildings. You are no more "free" to express your religion on the wall of a governmental building than I am "free" to express my religion on the side of your home.

It's just that simple, but you keep ignoring it...



See Dylan's post above.
It's the establishment clause which forbids governmental endorsement of religion.
Government is not putting the picture up. A child is.
Old 07-08-2006, 11:00 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
When a government body puts a picture of Jesus up on their wall, it IS an act of governmental endorsement.
Whether or not you realize or admit that is irrelevant.

This isn't about "freedom" because people don't own the walls of the governmental buildings. You are no more "free" to express your religion on the wall of a governmental building than I am "free" to express my religion on the side of your home.

It's just that simple, but you keep ignoring it...



See Dylan's post above.
It's the establishment clause which forbids governmental endorsement of religion.
Where does it say in the first Amendment that a chld cannot put up a picture of Jesus on a government building? There are sculptures of Moses and Mohammed on the building of the US Supreme court. Why are those allowed?
Old 07-08-2006, 11:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Where does it say in the first Amendment that a chld cannot put up a picture of Jesus on a government building? There are sculptures of Moses and Mohammed on the building of the US Supreme court. Why are those allowed?
ALL of these questions have been asked and answered.
I'm not going to waste my time in trying to debate with somebody who is incapable of it. Either address the arguments already on the table, or quit pretending that you're debating.
I'm not catering to this particular antic of yours (repeating questions already answered where you don't address the answers) anymore...

But maybe, more at your level, you should be answered to the first question with: "Where does it say in the first Amendment that a chld has a right to put up a picture of Jesus on a government building?"
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
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"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
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