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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 07-08-2006, 11:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Government is not putting the picture up. A child is.
From YOUR OWN ARTICLE:
"Two civil liberties groups sued in federal court Wednesday to remove a picture of Jesus that has hung in a high school for more than 30 years."

Quit with your lies...
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Old 07-08-2006, 11:57 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Alias, the 14th Amendment extends the bill of rights to all state governments, agencies, and courts. The public school system is no exception. And the establishment clause of the first amendment is no exception to the Due Process Clause of the 14th amendment either.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 07-08-2006, 01:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
ALL of these questions have been asked and answered.
I'm not going to waste my time in trying to debate with somebody who is incapable of it. Either address the arguments already on the table, or quit pretending that you're debating.
I'm not catering to this particular antic of yours (repeating questions already answered where you don't address the answers) anymore...

But maybe, more at your level, you should be answered to the first question with: "Where does it say in the first Amendment that a chld has a right to put up a picture of Jesus on a government building?"
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.

It's right there and you can't see it because you've been indoctrinated.
Old 07-08-2006, 01:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
From YOUR OWN ARTICLE:
"Two civil liberties groups sued in federal court Wednesday to remove a picture of Jesus that has hung in a high school for more than 30 years."

Quit with your lies...
Oh yes, the good ole Civil Liberties Union. And then you want me to believe there is no concerted effort to remove religion from society by the ACLU.
Old 07-08-2006, 01:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky
Alias, the 14th Amendment extends the bill of rights to all state governments, agencies, and courts. The public school system is no exception. And the establishment clause of the first amendment is no exception to the Due Process Clause of the 14th amendment either.
Okay. Please tell me how the 14th amendment restricts the rights mentioned in the 1st amendment.

Last edited by alias; 07-08-2006 at 01:42 PM.
Old 07-08-2006, 02:26 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.
It's right there and you can't see it because you've been indoctrinated.
1) You're pulling the same lame crap again by repeating the same tired arguments you've already used, and then refusing to address the responses you get.
Putting a picture of Jesus on a GOVERNMENTAL school wall is no more a "free exercise of religion" than painting a picture of Jesus on your neighbor's garage.

2) And the answer to your question is there too, as previously pointed out...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.
It's right there and you can't see it because you refuse to.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
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Old 07-08-2006, 02:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Oh yes, the good ole Civil Liberties Union. And then you want me to believe there is no concerted effort to remove religion from society by the ACLU.
And AGAIN Alias pulls the same tired ol' crap of changing the subject.
He claims a "student" puts the picture there.
It is pointed out that the picture has been on that wall for THIRTY YEARS with no mention of who put it there.

And then he changes the subject...

Alias, there IS a concerted effort to ensure that the government follows separation of church and state.
But "remove religion from society"???
NO.
At best, they are "removing religion from GOVERNMENT". NOT "society".
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 07-08-2006, 04:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Oh yes, the good ole Civil Liberties Union. And then you want me to believe there is no concerted effort to remove religion from society by the ACLU.

"The American Civil Liberties Union of Rhode Island announced today that it has filed an appeal in federal court on behalf of a Christian prisoner who was barred from preaching during religious services at the state prison. " http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/23445prs20060112.html

"The American Civil Liberties Union of Nebraska today announced that it would defend a Presbyterian church from a forced eviction by the city." http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/16347prs20040811.html

"A federal judge has struck down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating, in a challenge filed by the Rev. Jerry Falwell and joined by the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, the group announced today. " http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/16040prs20020417.html

"The American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan today asked the state Supreme Court to hear the case of a Catholic man who was criminally punished for not completing a Pentecostal drug rehabilitation program, which prevented him from practicing his own religious faith. His request to be transferred to another program that would allow him to practice his own faith was denied and he was sentenced to six months in jail and boot camp." http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/16354prs20040720.html

"Citing ACLU Arguments, State Supreme Court Says Prosecutors Cannot Reject Jurors Who Are 'Demonstrative About Their Religion'." http://www.aclu.org/religion/gen/16374prs20041222.html

Yeah, it really looks like the ACLU has been working hard to remove religion from society.
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God
Old 07-08-2006, 05:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.

It's right there and you can't see it because you've been indoctrinated.
Did you read my last response to you (post #10 in this thread)? I know I linked to a long post, but that post explains quite why you are incorrect.

To summarize, the government cannot respect an establishment of religion. Christianity is an establishment of religion. Therefore the government cannot respect Christianity.

So if Congress voted to create a monument to Christianity, they would be respecting Christianity, and they cannot do that.

Now, this isn't exactly Congress doing this, it is a school: it is goverment-appointed officials, not the members of Congress themselves. So the question is: can government-appointed officials put up a monument to Christianity on public property?

Imagine that the answer to that question is "yes". If that's the case, any time Congress wanted to create a monument to a religion, they could simply appoint someone to do that instead of doing it themselves. It would be like a little loophole in the Constitution. "Oh, well Congress can't do it, but Congress can appoint someone to do it for them." Clearly that would make no sense.

So it isn't Congress who put up this religious picture, but it is a body of people created by Congress. As my reasoning suggests, Congress should not be allowed to appoint people, then grant them the power to act outside the Constitution any more than they should be allowed to act outside of the Constitution themselves.

Remember: people have freedom to choose and express their own religion. The goverment does not have that freedom. The goverment must respect all beliefs equally. This is not a person putting up a picture of Jesus in his house; it is the government putting up a picture of Jesus in a public institution. It is not allowed under the Constitution.

As I said before, I think you should read what I linked to in post #10.
-Jaxian
Old 07-08-2006, 06:30 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Jaxian,

I wasn't being snide when I wrote #11 to you.
Just trying to let you know in advance what you were in for...

Alias doesn't do the "reading" of other people's opinion thing.
He thinks he knows our opinions even before we speak...
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
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