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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 09-21-2006, 12:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You have answered that question over and over again.
And I have answered it over and over again.
The bible IS VAGUE on the issue, without giving a concrete explanation.
Just because you have a SPECIFIC answer doesn't mean it is the "right" answer.

Suppose Jane says she left John because of neglect.
Suppose you come along and say that the "neglect" was that John packed up his stuff and moved to another state.
Just because you have a specific answer doesn't mean that is what John ACTUALLY did. Maybe John neglected to buy her an anniversary present. Maybe John is neglecting her sexually.
Just because YOU give a specific answer doesn't make it the right one.


In different parts of the Bible, they reference DIFFERENT SINS. Some Bible passages on the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah make NO reference to sexuality.

And for the record, you have once again avoided virtually every argument I laid out in that post. You haven't "bitten" on anything.
You are once again side-tracking the discussion away from points you cannot address.
The fact is you will not face reality. If Sodom and Gormorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality, why were they destroyed? You have yet to respond to this?

2 Peter 2:6: "and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly".

The verse says the cities were destroyed because the people lived ungodly. What were they doing that was ungodly?

You can't or will not answer it.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alias View Post
The fact is you will not face reality. If Sodom and Gormorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality, why were they destroyed? You have yet to respond to this?
Actually, I HAVE responded to this. I HAVE answered your question.
You don't like the fact that the Bible gives a vague statement in multiple places, so you fill in your own gaps.
Just because you give a specific answer doesn't make you right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
2 Peter 2:6: "and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly".
The verse says the cities were destroyed because the people lived ungodly. What were they doing that was ungodly?
You can't or will not answer it.
I HAVE answered your question. It's too vague to tell.
*Not enough information* is an answer, whether you like it or not.

Suppose I tell you that Jane left John because he was "ungodly".
Would you automatically jump to the conclusion that Jane left John because he was gay?

And moreover, this would be one example of what I was talking about. This bible passage makes NO REFERENCE to sexual immorality.
But you have ALREADY ASSUMED that it is about sexual immorality.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 09-21-2006, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Actually, I HAVE responded to this. I HAVE answered your question.
You don't like the fact that the Bible gives a vague statement in multiple places, so you fill in your own gaps.
Just because you give a specific answer doesn't make you right.



I HAVE answered your question. It's too vague to tell.
*Not enough information* is an answer, whether you like it or not.

Suppose I tell you that Jane left John because he was "ungodly".
Would you automatically jump to the conclusion that Jane left John because he was gay?

And moreover, this would be one example of what I was talking about. This bible passage makes NO REFERENCE to sexual immorality.
But you have ALREADY ASSUMED that it is about sexual immorality.
See what I mean. Your answer is that "It's too vague to tell". Do you have a comprehension problem? I can read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis and I can tell you exactly why it why it was destroyed. You must be the only one on this forum who can't see it. The truth is you will not admit it.
Old 09-21-2006, 01:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post
See what I mean. Your answer is that "It's too vague to tell". Do you have a comprehension problem?
Do YOU have a comprehension problem?
You JUST ACKNOWLEDGED that I answered the question you claimed I hadn't.

I expect in a few minutes, you'll STILL be claiming that I haven't answered a question you just admitted I answered...


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I can read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis and I can tell you exactly why it why it was destroyed. You must be the only one on this forum who can't see it. The truth is you will not admit it.
Again, just because you give a SPECIFIC ANSWER, as opposed to a vague answer, DOES NOT mean that you have the right answer.

And I will continue to point out the issues you just plain CANNOT ADDRESS.
1) Show me ANYWHERE ELSE in the Bible where "to know" is used for homosexual sex. Can't do it, can you.
2) Why is it that MULTIPLE Bible passages talk about Sodom and Gomorrah and their sin, but make no mention of perversion or sexual immorality?
If the sin was "homosexuality" as you claim, then why do other bible passages do not specify?
3) The context of the time DID NOT CONSIDER HOMOSEXUAL SEX AS SEX.
And yet you insist that "to know" meant gay sex.
4) WHY did the earlier interpreters of the Bible have a DIFFERENT view than you now have? WHY did they see the "sin" of Sodom and Gomorrah as something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT for CENTURIES???
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 09-21-2006, 01:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Do YOU have a comprehension problem?
You JUST ACKNOWLEDGED that I answered the question you claimed I hadn't.

I expect in a few minutes, you'll STILL be claiming that I haven't answered a question you just admitted I answered...



Again, just because you give a SPECIFIC ANSWER, as opposed to a vague answer, DOES NOT mean that you have the right answer.

And I will continue to point out the issues you just plain CANNOT ADDRESS.
1) Show me ANYWHERE ELSE in the Bible where "to know" is used for homosexual sex. Can't do it, can you.
2) Why is it that MULTIPLE Bible passages talk about Sodom and Gomorrah and their sin, but make no mention of perversion or sexual immorality?
If the sin was "homosexuality" as you claim, then why do other bible passages do not specify?
3) The context of the time DID NOT CONSIDER HOMOSEXUAL SEX AS SEX.
And yet you insist that "to know" meant gay sex.
4) WHY did the earlier interpreters of the Bible have a DIFFERENT view than you now have? WHY did they see the "sin" of Sodom and Gomorrah as something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT for CENTURIES???

Why were the cities of Sodom and Gormorrah destroyed? Very simple question. Why were the cities of Sodom and Gormorrah destroyed?
Old 09-21-2006, 01:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post
Why were the cities of Sodom and Gormorrah destroyed? Very simple question. Why were the cities of Sodom and Gormorrah destroyed?
And there he goes again.
Back to asking the same question that has already been answered...

The Bible gives many VAGUE reasons. Ungodliness. Sexual immorality. blah, blah, blah.
It gives DIFFERENT vague reasons in DIFFERENT spots.

I don't know why you can't get it through your head that just because you give ONE specific answer DOES NOT mean anything.
I could claim their sin was "sex before marriage" and it would fit the description too.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 09-21-2006, 02:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
And there he goes again.
Back to asking the same question that has already been answered...

The Bible gives many VAGUE reasons. Ungodliness. Sexual immorality. blah, blah, blah.
It gives DIFFERENT vague reasons in DIFFERENT spots.

I don't know why you can't get it through your head that just because you give ONE specific answer DOES NOT mean anything.
I could claim their sin was "sex before marriage" and it would fit the description too.
Okay. Take it one step at a time. You said ungodliness and sexual immorality were the reasons they were destroyed. What sexual activity is happening in the story in Genesis? I say it is homosexuality. What kind of sexual activity do you think it is talking about in Genesis? You're the one always hollering for honesty around here. Let's see some from you.
Old 09-21-2006, 03:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post
Okay. Take it one step at a time. You said ungodliness and sexual immorality were the reasons they were destroyed. What sexual activity is happening in the story in Genesis?
How many times will you continue to ask the same question and get the same reply?
It DOES NOT SPECIFY.
Rape. Pre-marital sex. Orgies. Homosexuality.
It doesn't say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I say it is homosexuality.
And that would be based on YOUR say.
Suppose I say it is pre-marital sex. I could make as convincing of an argument for that as you could for "gay sex". In fact, moreso considering you keep avoiding the four issues which block your interpretation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
What kind of sexual activity do you think it is talking about in Genesis? You're the one always hollering for honesty around here. Let's see some from you.
The HONEST thing to do when confronted with a vague statement is ADMIT IT IS VAGUE and not submit your own speculation into the works and proclaim it as fact.
THAT is "honest".
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 09-21-2006, 03:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Genesis19:5-8

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Lot tells the men of Sodom to not do so wickedly. What was the wicked thing?

The men of Sodom wanted "to know" the men. Lot's 2 daughters were offered who had "not known man" What does not known man mean?

Please answer those 2 questions.

Last edited by alias; 09-21-2006 at 03:09 PM.
Old 09-21-2006, 03:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Genesis19:5-8
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Lot tells the men of Sodom to not do so wickedly. What was the wicked thing?
Oh dear GAWD when will you learn that asking the same question over and over again just gets you the same response?

It DOES NOT SAY.
The people of Sodom could have been planning to interrogate and torture the visitors. They could have been planning to rob them. They could have been planning to try and convert them to Hari Krishnas.
It DOES NOT SAY.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
The men of Sodom wanted "to know" the men. Lot's 2 daughters were offered who had "not known man" What does not known man mean?
You blindly assume the two "knowing" mean the same thing.
I have already told you that I acknowledge the Bible uses "know" as a means to describe heterosexual intercourse carnal knowledge.

But there is NO EVIDENCE that "to know" is ever used in the bible as a means to describe homosexual sex.
You CLAIMING that is what they mean here IS NOT evidence of that.

Suppose I claimed "to know" is used as a reference to a greeting whereby people tickle the bottoms of the feet of newcomers.
Proof of my claim? Right there. THAT is what they were saying in that Bible passage. They wanted to tickle the bottoms of the feet of the newcomers.
There is my proof.

Do you get how you claiming this issue as proof unto itself is circular?


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Please answer those 2 questions.
Please STOP asking questions that have already been addressed NUMEROUS times and start addressing these points...

1) Show me ANYWHERE ELSE in the Bible where "to know" is used for homosexual sex. Can't do it, can you.
2) Why is it that MULTIPLE Bible passages talk about Sodom and Gomorrah and their sin, but make no mention of perversion or sexual immorality?
If the sin was "homosexuality" as you claim, then why do other bible passages do not specify?
3) The context of the time DID NOT CONSIDER HOMOSEXUAL SEX AS SEX.
And yet you insist that "to know" meant gay sex.
4) WHY did the earlier interpreters of the Bible have a DIFFERENT view than you now have? WHY did they see the "sin" of Sodom and Gomorrah as something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT for CENTURIES???
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher

Last edited by foundit66; 09-21-2006 at 03:30 PM.
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