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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 09-09-2006, 12:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Sodomy & The Bible
According to the Bible, homosexuality is detestable to God.

The Bible and Homosexuality


Genesis 19:4-8

They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Leviticus 18:22

"'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.



*Note: the Old Testament called for the most severe penalty for homosexuals....i.e, death.

However the New Testament calls for forgiveness.

And to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Harming people for being sinners is as well detestable to God.



Mathew 11

19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber (drinker of wine), a friend of publicans (Roman tax collector) and sinners.



(*Note: Those in Judea who worked on behalf of the Romans collecting taxes (publicans) were hated by everyone)


Mathew 9

12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them,

"They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick."

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice:

For I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.





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Last edited by Lucidthots; 09-09-2006 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 09-09-2006, 02:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What if they are Zionists? Is it okay to harm them?
Old 09-09-2006, 03:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post

What if they are Zionists? Is it okay to harm them?


~You cant be a lying, theiving, murdering criminal and then complain when people try to kill you.~

Lucidthots

Last edited by Lucidthots; 09-09-2006 at 06:07 PM.
Old 09-09-2006, 04:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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YouTube - Dave Chappelle - Gay USA







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Last edited by Lucidthots; 09-09-2006 at 04:23 PM.
Old 09-09-2006, 06:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Chapelle is so fucking funny.
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 09-21-2006, 01:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Prisons are not funny! Think about it!
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I am not a human being having a spiritual experience, I am a spiritual being having a human experience.

The ancient Greeks used to say, "You shall know a man by the friends that he keeps." Given the nature of their friends and advisers, what are we to conclude about the Republican party:
Stop the madness before us it stops!
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes on 66 | Fix Three Strikes
Live the Light, Give the Light,
Bring Heaven to Earth Every Day!


I am not a human being having a spiritual experience, I am a spiritual being having a human experience.

The ancient Greeks used to say, "You shall know a man by the friends that he keeps." Given the nature of their friends and advisers, what are we to conclude about the Republican party:
Stop the madness before us it stops!
Σταματήστε την τρέλα προτού να μας σταματήσεϊ Greek
Old 09-21-2006, 09:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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A) The word "sodomy" never appears in the Bible. It appears much later in our English usage. Around the 1250-1300 time-frame.

B) sod‧om‧y  /ˈsɒdəmi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sod-uh-mee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2. copulation with a member of the same sex.
3. bestiality (def. 4).
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME sodomie < OF. See Sodom, -y3]

I am frequently amazed at how many people want to discuss "sodomy" and ONLY discuss the "same sex" aspect of it.

Heterosexual anal or oral copulation is also considered "sodomy", and has also been historically condemned by the church.
But of course, THIS condemnation is abandoned by modern Christianity, out of convenience...

3) Nobody has ever addressed the issue of why the scholars never interpreted the sin of "Sodom and Gomorrah" as NON-HOMOSEXUAL for CENTURIES after the last book was written.
You can quote all the MODERN rephrasings of the bible you want. It's like Jane leaving John in 1700, with a variety of vague reasonings being given.
Then, in 1950, authors start writing EXPLICIT reasons into their accounts of why Jane left John, saying it was for adultery. The modern reinvention proves nothing.

4) And as I have pointed out, with nobody really addressing it, the phrase "to know" is used numerous times in the bible. Sometimes for heterosexual sexual meaning. Sometime for non sexual meaning.
There is a LONG HISTORY of the Christian church not acknowledging that "sodomy" is sex. They only considered vaginal sex as "intercourse", and some still cling to these definitions today.
If anybody can show me anywhere in the Bible where they use "to know" in the HOMOSEXUAL sense, beyond this ONE passage where you're trying to claim it, I welcome it.

5) I have no personal doubts the Bible is against homosexuality. The bible is against a lot of things that don't make sense to me. The bible is against a lot of things that have since been abandoned as foolishness, and nobody in their right mind would try to adopt those rules.
My point is that claiming that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is "homosexuality" is a reinvention of the myth.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
A) The word "sodomy" never appears in the Bible. It appears much later in our English usage. Around the 1250-1300 time-frame.

B) sod‧om‧y  /ˈsɒdəmi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sod-uh-mee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2. copulation with a member of the same sex.
3. bestiality (def. 4).
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME sodomie < OF. See Sodom, -y3]

I am frequently amazed at how many people want to discuss "sodomy" and ONLY discuss the "same sex" aspect of it.

Heterosexual anal or oral copulation is also considered "sodomy", and has also been historically condemned by the church.
But of course, THIS condemnation is abandoned by modern Christianity, out of convenience...

3) Nobody has ever addressed the issue of why the scholars never interpreted the sin of "Sodom and Gomorrah" as NON-HOMOSEXUAL for CENTURIES after the last book was written.
You can quote all the MODERN rephrasings of the bible you want. It's like Jane leaving John in 1700, with a variety of vague reasonings being given.
Then, in 1950, authors start writing EXPLICIT reasons into their accounts of why Jane left John, saying it was for adultery. The modern reinvention proves nothing.

4) And as I have pointed out, with nobody really addressing it, the phrase "to know" is used numerous times in the bible. Sometimes for heterosexual sexual meaning. Sometime for non sexual meaning.
There is a LONG HISTORY of the Christian church not acknowledging that "sodomy" is sex. They only considered vaginal sex as "intercourse", and some still cling to these definitions today.
If anybody can show me anywhere in the Bible where they use "to know" in the HOMOSEXUAL sense, beyond this ONE passage where you're trying to claim it, I welcome it.

5) I have no personal doubts the Bible is against homosexuality. The bible is against a lot of things that don't make sense to me. The bible is against a lot of things that have since been abandoned as foolishness, and nobody in their right mind would try to adopt those rules.
My point is that claiming that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is "homosexuality" is a reinvention of the myth.
Funny. Okay, I'll bite. What according to you was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. This should be good.
Old 09-21-2006, 12:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post
Funny. Okay, I'll bite. What according to you was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. This should be good.
You have answered that question over and over again.
And I have answered it over and over again.
The bible IS VAGUE on the issue, without giving a concrete explanation.
Just because you have a SPECIFIC answer doesn't mean it is the "right" answer.

Suppose Jane says she left John because of neglect.
Suppose you come along and say that the "neglect" was that John packed up his stuff and moved to another state.
Just because you have a specific answer doesn't mean that is what John ACTUALLY did. Maybe John neglected to buy her an anniversary present. Maybe John is neglecting her sexually.
Just because YOU give a specific answer doesn't make it the right one.


In different parts of the Bible, they reference DIFFERENT SINS. Some Bible passages on the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah make NO reference to sexuality.

And for the record, you have once again avoided virtually every argument I laid out in that post. You haven't "bitten" on anything.
You are once again side-tracking the discussion away from points you cannot address.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
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