| Community Leader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ann Arbor, MI, USA Gender:  Posts: 834 Level up: 52%, 73 Points needed |  |  Quote:
Originally Posted by hkbajwa  Now now jefferson.. no need to fly off the handle.
What ludin is trying to say is that americans do have a skewed vision regarding the nature of islam. The reason for this is that a bombing just makes better news that non-violence.
Now you have to understand that non-violence and terrorism are two different approaches to the same complaints. There IS a feeling of exploitation by the west that even the most peaceful muslim feels. Whether it is true or not is a different discussion. The point is that the west never sees the reports of all those who share the complaints of the terrorists, but DON'T choose to kill innocent people. This is not a conspriracy by the western media, but rather a reality of the nature of news reporting.
However as a result people like you and alias end up thinking that ALL muslims are potential terrorists. THat is not true. But we also cannot fault you for not knowing that.
However i do wish that you would open your eyes and ears a bit wider and believe me when i say that most muslims are NOT terrorists and they are exactly as capable of violence as any other grouping of people in the world. Circumstances dictate whether that potential is unleashed or not.
About the crusades, there is no way to tell. Perhaps the barbarity of the crusaders has been exagerrated.. maybe the muslims were not unruly hordes of barbarians pillaging the countryside. I know however that Islam as a religion has been pivotal in the intellectual development of the western world. The moors in spain lay the groundwork for the rennaisance.
Hitler, stalin and may not have been christian in their actions, but christianity was their stated religion. And it was religion they used to control their populations ( in stalin's case it was marxism, but still used as an opiate). This is just like Osama STATING that he is a true believer, but the muslim world agreeing that he is NOT a muslim. You should note that only far right wing fundos praise Osama as a true muslim. Most muslims do NOT agree with that.
HOWEVER, even though they condemn his method, they still agree with his complaints. This is the case with ahmedinejad. Most muslims do not agree with his firebrand type of islam. Many in fact work AGAINST it.. However most muslims also agree that somehow ahmedinejad has been exceptionally good at putting words to the complaints. It is in the interest of the US to listen. It will give you a good indication of the REAL problem, instead of the phantoms you are fighting now. | Jefferson, you stated that the above is dead wrong on 9/22/06 at 04:13 PM. Yet you do not pull it apart item by item. Perhaps I will.
hkbajwa states that violence gets better billing in the news than non-violence. This is true.
He then states "non-violence and terrorism are two different approaches to the same complaints. There IS a feeling of exploitation by the west that even the most peaceful muslim feels. " We have no way of saying this is true or not unless we are muslim. We do not have the life experiences that muslims do at this point in time. You cannot invalidate someone's feelings by saying they are not true simply because you wish they did not feel that way.
Again, we do not see the non-violence because it is currently not newsworthy. This speaks volumes to me in terms of humanity's nature. Human beings have a long way to go.
If alias and Jefferson believe that all muslims are potential terrorists, then so are all human beings, as we all are capable of hatred, rage, vengeance and violence. The religion has nothing to do with terrorism, but is being used by people who are following the wrong path. Much the same could be said for a certain administration and evangelical christianity, in many people's opinion.
That most muslims agree with bin Laden's complaints, but not his methods, means that we in the west need to listen to the complaints. We are not good at active listening. It's time we learned. | 
09-22-2006, 09:50 PM
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