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If this passage in Mathew is true.....




Mathew 7:20

"By their works ye shall know them."




And......

..... if this passage is a clear description of the orders given by the God of the "Jews".......




1 Samuel 15: 3

Spare no one but kill alike, men and women, infants and sucklings, oxen and sheep, camels and assess!




Then the obvious conclusion would have to be.......



JEWS WORSHIP SATAN!



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Why of course. They also eat children and drink the blood of dead muslims. Just ask any muslim.

Numbers 23:24

24 Behold, the people rises up as a lioness, As a lion does he lift himself up: He shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.......


Tempt me again?

Can you be an american muslim without incurring the wrath of alias? even if you have the audacity to challenge the current policies of the US?

Yeah the article is pretty accurate actually. And it certainly does not paint the religion in a favorable light.

But one must make a distinction between that which is a result of CULTURAL norms and those which are based in the actual sayings of the quran.

For instance, the fact that a woman has to procure 4 witnesses to prove a rape is mentioned nowhere in the quran. It also wasn't part of pakistani law until 1980 when general Zia started the "islamization" of pakistan. The hudood ordinance as it is called has since been condemned by locals and foreigners alike.

Incidentally i believe that the most islamic area in the world is Europe. The european socialist polcies and welfare societies most closely resemble the ideal islamic state.

Most muslims disagree with that because sex is such a taboo in muslims societies ( and we know that europe is a great deal more explicit than even the US) . However the fact that there is equality before the law, equal rights for women , a welfare system to take care of the poor and needy, actually makes it more in accordance with islamic principles than any "islamic" nation in the world today ( Malaysia comes very close though)

Anyhow i am jsut trying to explain that Islamic ideology and cultures using islam as a ratoinale for their irrational behaviour are two separate things.

Okay, on a serious note for a minute...

With the Muslim religion being both a religion AND a culture, how do you separate the two? Doesn't Islam seek to impose, by its nature, "shariah law"?


As I see it, Christianity is more of a culturally transcendant religion - living within and not necessarily changing many cultures - but Islam must control the culture as well.

What gives?

We'll take care of our own problems over here. You have no say. You don't cast a vote. You have enough work to do over where you are at. We all saw the little display after the words of the Pope. Show me some pictures of Christians burning images and flags because of outrage from beheadings, murdering children, and firing missles loaded with ball bearings into civilian populations.

You don't get it. It's not very popular over in America to say you are a muslim and it's getting worse all the time because of muslim actions all over the world. Your religion has a bigger problem than American foreign policy.

That is a VERY good point and it is a real problem. The lines between local custom and islamic culture is MOST often misunderstood by the MUSLIMS.

Things like female circumcision is an african custom that has been promoted by the local somali imams as islamic. Likewise honour killings are a cultural issue given the stamp of islamic culture. most muslims are not aware of what is islamic and what is local custom.

This is because islamic regimes ahve tried to create an artificial cultural homogeneity that is impossible to create. For instance just in pakistan we have an example.

Punjabi culture is one of plenty. Rights of heredity are not so fiercely contested. Women are also much more a part of working life as a result of the agriculture. Islamic principles regarding a woman's place is much different from the Pushtun culture in Pakistan.

The pushtun live in dry mountains. Heredity is fiercely guarded and women are kept locked awasy since there is very little agriculture or work for them to do other than procreate.

The most fundamentalist and chauvinist islamic interpretations come from the pushtun culture. So a punjabi like myself will telly ou that islam is NOT chavinist. But we will agree that the culture of the pushtuns IS sexist and discriminatory.

Islam is a set a principles. How they are implemented is a cultural thing. Islam can give a start to homogeneity, but it does not exist in the muslim world. So when a cleric says such-and-such is Islamic, you have to assume he speaks of islam in the context of HIS culture.

That btw is why i keep telling you that prejudice against muslims will only make your conclusions wrong. Muslim "culture" encompasses a few basic principles, but beyond that the culture and history of the individual colours his perception of what is "islamic".

So basing opinions on the homogeniety of muslims is just a mistake.

MANY MANY muslim governments have sought to impose shariah law. That is however an impossibility. Opinions about what "shariah" law is are so fragmented that it can never be truly and permanently imposed. Even a country like Iran will soner or later move over to a more secular model.

The Prime Minister of Malaysia said a lovely thing once. It was to the effect that it was not his job to make sure everybody else was a good muslim. It was his job to be a good muslim and run his country as a good muslim. He meant that he was only responsible for his own morality and the welfare of his people. The morality of his people were no concern of his since each man must make his own peace with god. That is the muslim leader of a muslim nation saying that. And that is roughly the direction Pakistan is going.. it is the direction that Turkey has ALREADY gone.

Shariah is the fading dream of power the imbecile clerics have.

Are you kidding me? The US can't gain ANY support for ANY of their policies from anywhere except a bunch of irrelevant countries ( including denmark) and the UK. Even in THOSE country the americans are becoming less and less popular. Blair is definately not popular cuz of his ties with bush.

At lleast the muslims are too weak to actualyl bully anybody. That way the rest of the world is working out their problems with the muslims. However the US refuses to give even an inch. The arrogance of the US is FAR more detrimental to them than the stupidity of the muslim terrorists.

Wow, if most muslims don't know the difference, what hope is there for us non-muslims? Can you recommend a good website that might have this information? Thanks.