Originally Posted by chrisg967

I think he's talking about "collateral damage" in the war on terror, alias. Someone's been keeping a running total, even if the government hasn't.

Originally Posted by alias

Who do they call civilians? Our enemy does not wear a uniform. Did you ever hear of propaganda during wars?

Originally Posted by chrisg967

Good question - dunno what the criteria is, or who determined it. Could be just how many were killed, not necessarily on which side they happen to be (are they all on a side?) And yes, we get propaganda all the time, even without wars.

Originally Posted by alias

So then no one knows exactly how many civilians the USA has killed. I would assume that. Would you?

Originally Posted by alias

We do know for sure civilians are being killed every day in Iraq by other civilians. We also know for sure that there are lots of voices saying lots of things to media to get an advantage.

We don't know for sure how many civilians have been killed and by who for sure. It is purely propaganda from a muslim who has stated he is opposed to the USA and that is one thing we know for sure.

Originally Posted by alias

We also know that muslims have no problem killing other muslims since they do it every day. They also have no problem blowing up each other's mosques that are supposedly neutral holy places, at least they keep making us believe that so we don't shoot them when they shoot at us from one. Are you getting the picture?

Originally Posted by chrisg967

I'm not going to assume anything. I suppose one could start with news reports, and tally up how many casualties were reported after an event. There is a website doing that, the Iraq Body Count, which according to their Quick-FAQ:


They have a minimum count and a maximum count, currently 43258 (min), 48035 (max).

For more about this project, see Iraq Body Count | BACKGROUND (includes a list of their sources) and Iraq Body Count | CONTACTS and TEAM (includes who they are, their position, and their background.)

I have reservations about using the media to determine the numbers, but what other source of information do we have?



Civilians are being killed by terrorists and by soldiers.

And yes, people will say whatever it takes to get noticed or to get an advantage.

I do not know that the Iraq Body Count website is run by a muslim. hkbajwa's count is very close to the IBC, and it may be where he is getting his info.


No. Terrorists have no problem killing other muslims, have no problem blowing up mosques, etc. In my opinion, terrorists have created their own version of Islam so that it suits their purposes.

Originally Posted by alias

I don't even think about civilian deaths. I am concerned about killing the enemy. That's all that really matters to me. That probably sounds blood thirsty to some people and I am sure some will call me a war monger. I really don't care about what people think about that either. Whatever the USA has to do to win, do it. We keep hearing from the left that the war is unwinable. In my opinion it is unwinable to the left because they don't know how to fight. They are more afraid of what Europe and other muslims think than they are concerned about defeating the enemy. That's crazy. When did Al queda sign on to the Geneva Convention? When did Hezbo sign on to the Geneva Convention? They are not the army of Lebanon. Hamas is not an army of a nation. The left is very confused about who the enemy is and even more confused when it comes to how to defeat the enemy. I'm convinced a lot of the left hates Bush more than terrorism.

Originally Posted by chrisg967

I know you don't, but others reading this thread might. And I had gathered that you only want the enemy dead. No matter what the cost, and no matter what the consequences. Some of us do think about the consequences.

Originally Posted by alias

The only consequences will be less people murdered going about thier daily lives and less people captured and then tortured by having their heads sawed off while they are alive. If civilians choose to let a terrorist live in their house and their house gets bombed, I don't give a shit. Their choice.

Originally Posted by Jon_M

Kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out!!!!!!!!!!!

No I'm kidding but I the US needs to take this "War on Terrorism" out of the hands of our politicians and put it back in the hands of our Military Leaders. Let the men that know how to fight fight.

Thanks

Jon