Frankly, HK, your religion is not inherrently violent, most religons arent.

However, when you have 1 billion members of a religion and even a small percentage of them decide they want to drag the whole thing back to the 7th century then you have a problem.

When I see a muslim cleric on TV, especially the American ones, I keep hearing that moderate clerics do preach peace and tolerance inside the mosques's etc. But wouldnt it be nice if a major cleric with some serious juice actually grew a pair and one of two things happens:

1) Modernist Muslims as in ones who abandon the islamic law of lets say the 1100's and come to grips with modernity as the Christian church has been trying its best to do. Modernists rise up and say no more. Close the damn religous school is Saudi Arabia and preach hate. Dismantle the dictatorships in the middle east that use the crudest form of Islamic law and belief to maintain control of people and restore control of their destiny to the good people who do live between the Red Sea and the Gulf. Stop the dictatorships from making millions off oil profits and then blaming the Americans for why the peopel are poor and unemployed. The Arab angst is misdirected at America in alot of cases.

OR 2) Perhaps it is time for an Islamic version of the Reformation. Perhaps it is time for a new sect of the relgion. A large chunk could fragment off and create a new modernist, although still Islamic faith.

Now #2 will probably stir some people, but to reject that notion may imply that Islam cannot be modernized. However when people view the Muslim world the news reports are often Byzentine in nature. Stonings, the perverting of women's rights, the Taliban and their 7th century magic carpet ride.

The bottomline HK is that, the big time leaders of your relgion are often either A) dictators or B) shadowy members of "Grand Councils" (see Iran).

I used to work in International sales and had a client from Kuwait who told me the following over dinner:

"We want to be part of the world, like everyone else. We dont want to be backward and we would like to stop all of the hatred towards our neighbors and just live our lives."

Bottomline: Cut the shit and you'll see results.

Yeha i think you are absolutely right.. Islam needs a reformation.

At presetnt there are 73 major sects of Islam. there are countless denominations within those sects also. Islam is not as cohesive a unit as you may think.

The Reformation has a already started.

As i have mentioned, there is a muslim sect that is not accepted by any other muslim sect. That is the sect i belong to. It is the AHmedi sect which follows the teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian in present day India. As per our belief he is in fact the promised messiah.

Now the basic theology is something i would recommend that everybody take a look at themselves at the official website Al Islam Online - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

The main things to note ar the following:

1) NO VIOLENCE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES IS ALLOWED. There are NO militant ahmedis. We are not allowed to use violence under any circumstances. No matter the injury or insult suffered. My father closed down a 100,000 liter dairy plant he owned due to the threat of violence against him for being ahmedi. He refused to give in to threats, but he also would not use violence to protect himself so he shut down the plant. My family was pretty broke for many years after that.

2) We are considered apostate in most muslim nations. That means that we are considered non-muslim. In the pakistani constitution it is required that a pakistani citizen signs an affidavit declaring ahmedis to be non-muslims. During the 70s when the isliamization process went underway in Pakistan there was a purge of sorts. Ahmedis were attacked an evicted from their towns. My family had made several libraries for free usage by local communities that were burnt down. In fact during that time my extended family moved into our house in lahore and the house was guarded by armed family members in case of a mob attacking.
We are not allowed to go for Haj to mecca ( we ar not allowed to enter the city). In fact we are liable to receive the death penalty for openly talking of our belief. The local mullahs are a greater threat to my life than they are to anyone of yours.

3) The main theological difference comes in terms of the finality of Mohammad. As per all other sects of Islam, NO PROPHET OF GOD will come to this earth after mohammad. the PROMISED MESSIAH will be jesus who will return to earth to destroy all non-believers.

As per AHmedi belief, the return of jesus is to be taken metaphorically and not literally. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was the promised messiah and he had the same role to play as jesus ( jesus came 1400 years after moses and Mirza 1400 years after mohammad ) . As per our belief it is illogical that god stops speaking to mankind AND it is illogocal that he contrvenes his own set laws of biology and keeps the same human alive for 2000 years up in the sky to return him to earth later.

We believe in logic and education. Magic and superstition is a thing of the past and it has no relevance. Our belief is more scientific.

The pen is mightier than the sword. That is why there is such emphasis on education in our sect. And we use our education to spread our belief. No swords, no bombs, no violence and NO HATRED.

You should check it out.. Maybe it will give you some hope for the future interaction between muslims and other religions.

Ever read the Bible?




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Muslims arent so bad.......

Did you guys hear about the herpes infected cock sucking baby raping rabbis?

Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes - Children's Health - MSNBC.com

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Was Mark Levine orally raped by a herpes infected Rabbi?

It sure would explain why he is such a psychopath.....

However....it still doesnt explain why he talks like a duck.


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I need to point out that Israel took the additional territory and held it only after they were repeatedly attacked.

Don't Bring That Booze into My Taxi
by Daniel Pipes
New York Sun
October 10, 2006
Don't Bring That Booze into My Taxi - article by Daniel Pipes

A minor issue at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport (MSP) has potentially major implications for the future of Islam in the United States.

Starting about a decade ago, some Muslim taxi drivers serving the airport declared, that they would not transport passengers visibly carrying alcohol, in transparent duty-free shopping bags, for example. This stance stemmed from their understanding of the Koran's ban on alcohol. A driver named Fuad Omar explained: "This is our religion. We could be punished in the afterlife if we agree to [transport alcohol]. This is a Koran issue. This came from heaven." Another driver, Muhamed Mursal, echoed his words: "It is forbidden in Islam to carry alcohol."

The issue emerged publicly in 2000. On one occasion, 16 drivers in a row refused a passenger with bottles of alcohol. This left the passenger - who had done nothing legally wrong - feeling like a criminal. For their part, the 16 cabbies lost income. As Josh L. Dickey of the Associated Press put it, when drivers at MSP refuse a fare for any reason, "they go to the back of the line. Waaaay back. Past the terminal, down a long service road, and into a sprawling parking lot jammed with cabs in Bloomington, where drivers sit idle for hours, waiting to be called again."

To avoid this predicament, Muslim taxi drivers asked the Metropolitan Airports Commission for permission to refuse passengers carrying liquor - or even suspected of carrying liquor - without being banished to the end of the line. MAC rejected this appeal, worried that drivers might offer religion as an excuse to refuse short-distance passengers.

Don't Bring That Booze into My Taxi
by Daniel Pipes
New York Sun
October 10, 2006

A minor issue at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport (MSP) has potentially major implications for the future of Islam in the United States.

Starting about a decade ago, some Muslim taxi drivers serving the airport declared, that they would not transport passengers visibly carrying alcohol, in transparent duty-free shopping bags, for example. This stance stemmed from their understanding of the Koran's ban on alcohol. A driver named Fuad Omar explained: "This is our religion. We could be punished in the afterlife if we agree to [transport alcohol]. This is a Koran issue. This came from heaven." Another driver, Muhamed Mursal, echoed his words: "It is forbidden in Islam to carry alcohol."

The issue emerged publicly in 2000. On one occasion, 16 drivers in a row refused a passenger with bottles of alcohol. This left the passenger - who had done nothing legally wrong - feeling like a criminal. For their part, the 16 cabbies lost income. As Josh L. Dickey of the Associated Press put it, when drivers at MSP refuse a fare for any reason, "they go to the back of the line. Waaaay back. Past the terminal, down a long service road, and into a sprawling parking lot jammed with cabs in Bloomington, where drivers sit idle for hours, waiting to be called again."

To avoid this predicament, Muslim taxi drivers asked the Metropolitan Airports Commission for permission to refuse passengers carrying liquor - or even suspected of carrying liquor - without being banished to the end of the line. MAC rejected this appeal, worried that drivers might offer religion as an excuse to refuse short-distance passengers.

Rest of the story at this link:

Don't Bring That Booze into My Taxi - article by Daniel Pipes

I've got a great idea folks. Before you enter a cab, ask the driver if he is a muslim and if he says yes, tell him "no thanks" because Islam offends you. The only problem is that a muslim is supposed to lie if it furthers Islam so that may not work. You can't transport a person carrying a bottle of booze, but it's okay to lie to further Islam. What a wonderful fucked up religion.

There are different sects, interpretations, and levels of obervance. I have several friends who are Muslim, none of whom have ever threatened to slaughter my village or cut off bits of me or anything like that. If you go to another passage, it says to respect Jews because we're all "people of the book" or whatnot.

It is my understanding that Hkbajwa's sect advocates pacifism, for example.

Plenty of Christians also have a strict stance against liquor. If people need their booze that badly, then they can just drive with someone else. If those drivers put their ethics above their profits, that's there imperative as businessmen. Taxi drivers are allowed to have some choice in their customers.