I totally agree with you, Katcinsky. Too many people still cannot understand that the extreme acts of one or even a group of people in the name of a religion should not make us believe the religion is bad; it was the people who commited the acts that deserve the punishment. If there is anyone out there who can tell me exactly where in the Koran that it says to deface and or destroy the symbols of another religion; I'd like to know about it because I sure can't find any.

Christians follow the New Testament which tells believers to love everyone. The Quran tells believers to kill Christians and Jews.

That makes Christianity a good religion and Islam a murdering religion.

JESUS: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in Matthew 5:44

MUHAMMED: And the Jews say: Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! Quran 9:30

Qur’an 47:4 “Strike off the heads of the disbelievers”; and after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.”


It looks to me that the muslims who are murdering people and chopping off their heads are only doing what their holy book tells them to do.

Its not that. Its people like you who still dont understand that Islam is evil. If it were not so, you'd hear from the good people of the religion. Theyd condem the actions of there brother's. But no, YOU have to defend them.

This (i Believe) is where you lack understanding. The "real muslims" are the ones who live according to the Koran. A book that tells them to be radical extremists. Its when one wants to understand there religion more, and begins to study the Koran, those are the people who become extremists. And if there to live according to the Koran they MUST become extremists. Alot of the population over there cant even read. Those are the "moderates".

This is simply immature. It's not my position to defend Islam in a defense of the reproaches that have been laid against it, as I am not a Muslim. However, as an atheist, and sort of side-lined as an observer, when I see certain Muslims hate one another simply because of their faith, and Christians likewise, perhaps it is the job of the non-religious or the secular to step in and break up the fight. Saying Islam is a religion of evil is simply immature and is the root of the problem. It even mirrors the ideology of the very radical Islam which you guys are complaining about. They look at the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and see the countless dead, and they think Christianity is evil. This is illogical, yes, but my point is that, it is likewise illogical in basing the assumption of Islam as an evil religion solely on the basis of terrorism and radical Islam.

Now look at this:



That is the Pope giving a gift to Grand Mufti Mustafa Cagrici, of whom is graciously accepting. This is how it should be. People should be generous, as well as accepting despite religious differences. Don't let religion divide us, and destroy us. You can have your opinions about Islam personally (or why you don't personally chose to follow it), but we need respect other people. People need to work together. If we don't, and call Islam or Christianity or whatever, "evil", and accept each other as our cosmic enemies, then there will never be peace. Albert Einstein once said, "Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved through understanding." He couldn't be more correct. The Muslims protesting the Pope's visitation are equally as immature and ignorant.

As an atheist, I look at organized religion as generally a bad thing on humanity. You and I disagree with that, and we can agree to disagree. However, I understand that all people have different dispositions, mentally, and will have different opinions about their universe. And I am not arrogant to assume that any one of us really knows what's really going on, and I am not arrogant to assume that my way is superior and that you should bend to my belief's will. Even though that's a precondition of organized religion, we can be secular and ignore that for the sake of humanity.

Also, to be fair to the Koran, there are two verses in the bible which speaks of stoning to death, people who worship other gods or preach other religions:

"Suppose you hear that in one of your towns some men or women have sinned against the Lord and broken his covenant by worshiping and serving other gods or the sun or the moon or the stars, contrary to the Lord's command...If it is true that this evil thing has happened in Israel, then take them outside of the town and stone them to death." (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." (Deuteronomy 13:5)

...and outside the faithful Muslims are rioting, calling for be-headings, and screaming "Death to the Infidel!!!!"

Romans 7



1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Christians live by the New Testament. You cannot take verses from the old testament law and say that is Christianity when it is not. You would do well to know what Christianity is and what Islam is before you judge them. In my opinion, it is ignorance to give an opinion based on ignorance and then turn around and say that those who know what Christianity believes and what Islam believes are ignorant. That is arrogance.

The Old Testament is in the Bible is it not? Christians therefore believe it to be the word of God, do they not? It is therefore Christianity. Otherwise, why is it in the bible?

Christians consider the 10 commandments a moral code and law whereby they live their lives. The 10 commandments are old testament law. If the old testament law is not Christianity, then the 10 commandments are not Christianity, according to you. You can't pick and choose some old testament law and not others, that is unfair, and according to Christianity, would be ignoring equally divine word, and therefore punishable by death by stoning.

I know Christianity, as I was a Christian. And I am not judging Islam and its beliefs, but rather organized religion all together. And like you know Islam?

According to your own logic, you are arrogant and ignorant. Because you are calling me ignorant for claiming to know what Christianity believes and what Islam believes.

That was a very weak argument, with little to no merit at all. How do you know if I know or do not know Christianity and Islam? In fact, it's only foundation was on assumption, that I, a former Christian, do not know anything about these two religions and therefore basing my judgments on ignorance. You couldn't be more wrong, and in fact I refute this very line of thinking in my previous post if you had actually read it. I said it was illogical, ignorant, and arrogant to assume that either religion are "evil" simply based on the violent actions of a few.

Hence, those Muslims that are protesting the Pope are ignorant, Muslims that think Christianity is evil because of the US invasions are ignorant, and JayD and yourself are ignorant for calling Islam evil because of 9/11.

No, the old testament is not Christianity. Christians live by the New Testament. You are mistaken. I don't know how else to tell you this, but you are totally wrong.

The Christian church begins in the book of Acts and contains the story of the beginning of Christianity. The books of Romans through Jude are letters to Christian churches teaching Jesus and Christian doctrine. That is Christianity.

The entire Quran is the teaching of muhammed who was a man of war and a pedophile. He hated Christians and Jews. Jesus did not hate anyone. I stand by that. Prove me wrong.