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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 12-03-2006, 12:44 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jaxian View Post
Well, this depends how far back in history you'd like to go. In the Middle Ages, Christians commit mass murder of people of different religions and atheists. They conducted inquisitions to find and kill these people. It was not pretty.

If you are talking about more recently, well I have no example of mass murder, but I can provide examples of individual murders if you like.

Despite these things, I do not call Christians evil. I call murderers evil. If a Christian is a murderer, he is evil. If he's a kind, generous person, he is not.



It appears to me that you are judging them by the actions of someone else: the actions of someone who has the same religion. Just because two people have the same religion does not mean that their actions are equivalent. Judge each person by his individual actions.
If you want to truly be truthful, let's say it like it was. It was NOT Christians who committed those acts in The Middle Ages. It was a church that claimed to be Christian that did that. That "church" was stripped of it's power when Martin Luther posted his thesis on the door of the church and the Reformaton began.

Read your history with an open mind. A true Christian follows the teachings of Christ. Can you really say the Roman Catholic Church followed the teachings of Christ? I think not. How many people do you know who attend Christian churches and don't DO what Christ said to do? Are they really Christians...just because they say they are?
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:47 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by intangible child View Post
Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me.---John Lennon

You're just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate.---John Lennon

I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong.---John Lennon

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I see you quote John Lennon a lot. Is he your god?
Old 12-03-2006, 01:03 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
This is simply immature. It's not my position to defend Islam in a defense of the reproaches that have been laid against it, as I am not a Muslim. However, as an atheist, and sort of side-lined as an observer, when I see certain Muslims hate one another simply because of their faith, and Christians likewise, perhaps it is the job of the non-religious or the secular to step in and break up the fight. Saying Islam is a religion of evil is simply immature and is the root of the problem. It even mirrors the ideology of the very radical Islam which you guys are complaining about. They look at the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and see the countless dead, and they think Christianity is evil. This is illogical, yes, but my point is that, it is likewise illogical in basing the assumption of Islam as an evil religion solely on the basis of terrorism and radical Islam.

Now look at this:



That is the Pope giving a gift to Grand Mufti Mustafa Cagrici, of whom is graciously accepting. This is how it should be. People should be generous, as well as accepting despite religious differences. Don't let religion divide us, and destroy us. You can have your opinions about Islam personally (or why you don't personally chose to follow it), but we need respect other people. People need to work together. If we don't, and call Islam or Christianity or whatever, "evil", and accept each other as our cosmic enemies, then there will never be peace. Albert Einstein once said, "Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved through understanding." He couldn't be more correct. The Muslims protesting the Pope's visitation are equally as immature and ignorant.

As an atheist, I look at organized religion as generally a bad thing on humanity. You and I disagree with that, and we can agree to disagree. However, I understand that all people have different dispositions, mentally, and will have different opinions about their universe. And I am not arrogant to assume that any one of us really knows what's really going on, and I am not arrogant to assume that my way is superior and that you should bend to my belief's will. Even though that's a precondition of organized religion, we can be secular and ignore that for the sake of humanity.

Also, to be fair to the Koran, there are two verses in the bible which speaks of stoning to death, people who worship other gods or preach other religions:

"Suppose you hear that in one of your towns some men or women have sinned against the Lord and broken his covenant by worshiping and serving other gods or the sun or the moon or the stars, contrary to the Lord's command...If it is true that this evil thing has happened in Israel, then take them outside of the town and stone them to death." (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." (Deuteronomy 13:5)
Mal 3:6 -
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Old 12-03-2006, 04:50 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Why is "religion" blamed for 9/11? Christains, Jews, Buddist, ect ect, had nothing, nor would have anything to do with something like that. Why cant you just say it, THE PROBLEM IS ISLAM. Just a few guys highjacking some planes hu? Then why did the entire middle east chant and parade in the streets, THANKING GOD for 9/11, and calling us the "GREAT SATAN" to be destroyed. Ok im done, now go back to telling me how christains used to blah blah blah.

And it will get alot worse before it gets better. Ever read about the president of Irans view on end time events?
You asked first, why religion is blamed for 9/11. then you say force fully that the problem is Islam. I don't get it. is Islam a religion or not?
Maybe I need to clarify my standing on religion/politics:Simply put; I will not chastise a whole group for the actions of individuals; whether it be by religion, race, or any other factors. By this way of thinking; every Catholic priest also deserves to "burn in hell". I don't believe that, either; having been raised Catholic myself. I do agree with you that we need to stop the cross argument of "tu quo" That is Latin that roughly translates to "you were doing it, too."
Old 12-03-2006, 04:56 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jaxian View Post
One could find worse quotes from Deuteronomy in the Bible's Old Testament, and instead of pointing out a few Christians who are generous, he could point out a few Christians who murder people.

People of every religion vary from very kind to very evil. I don't think we should be judging people by their religion, but instead by their actions.
Thank you very much, Jaxian. This is all I've been saying. Wasn't it Christ himself who said: " Let him without sin cast the first stone"?
Old 12-03-2006, 05:01 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Why, in other words, are people willing to cast off certain old testament law from Deuteronomy as "not really Christian", yet not offer mainstream Muslims the same benefit with the Quran? It seems pretty hypocritical to me.
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:29 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Why, in other words, are people willing to cast off certain old testament law from Deuteronomy as "not really Christian", yet not offer mainstream Muslims the same benefit with the Quran? It seems pretty hypocritical to me.
That's because you don't understand - aka, you're ignorant. But I bet you're used to hearing that.

The Old Testament is the book of the Jews.
The New Testament is the book of the Christians.

Yes, Christians will read and study the Old Testament - specifically concerning its prophecies about the Messiah. But I believe they understand the Old Testament to have been fulfilled in Jesus the Christ.

Jesus said, somewhere, that he did not come to abolish the Law and Prophets, but to fulfill them. He also said that the entire Law was summed up in two commandments - love God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.

In addition, Jesus was perhaps the most peaceful man who ever lived. Contrast that with Muhammad, who married a 6-year old girl & "consumated" the marriage when she was 9, led countless warring raids on civilians, waged war against unbelievers, and amassed great wealth for himself - and you can begin to see something: Muslims who are violent are BEHAVING EXACTLY LIKE MUHAMMAD. Christians who are violent are NOT BEHAVING LIKE JESUS.

Get it?
Old 12-03-2006, 06:54 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Why, in other words, are people willing to cast off certain old testament law from Deuteronomy as "not really Christian", yet not offer mainstream Muslims the same benefit with the Quran? It seems pretty hypocritical to me.
You do not understand Christianity or the bible. That is your problem. The old testament law is dead and no longer enforced. There are no Christians anywhere that I know of stoning people. Christians follow Jesus and live by the New Testament. I know you don't want to see that because then you lose ammunition for your political correctness of protecting Islam and continually saying that Christianity is just as bad.
Old 12-03-2006, 07:24 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Okay, then don't in the next breath say that we have to take everything else in the old testament (hint hint, creationism and the old testament) for their word. Jeeze, the stench of pure stupidity and arrogance coming from you two can be so repugnant sometimes.
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Old 12-03-2006, 07:34 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Okay, then don't in the next breath say that we have to take everything else in the old testament (hint hint, creationism and the old testament) for their word. Jeeze, the stench of pure stupidity and arrogance coming from you two can be so repugnant sometimes.
Yeah, that's quite a comeback.

Why not just say, "Yep, I got my butt handed to me in a basket again."?
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