Quote:

Originally Posted by alias Easy. All you have to say is you don't believe it and anyone who does is ignorant. I've never met a homo yet who believes the bible. Anyone?

Yes, I have personally known at least a dozen or more...


And you know of at least one, Alias. Ted Haggard.

OD

You're right, and you know what? He admitted his sin to the entire world. I admire him for that.

We all have a sin nature... including those that we hold to a higher standard. He confessed his sin in public and resigned his post. I'm sure that it was a difficult thing for him to do, but he did as we are commanded to do when we commit sins against God. He confessed his sin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaaaman We all have a sin nature... including those that we hold to a higher standard. He confessed his sin in public and resigned his post. I'm sure that it was a difficult thing for him to do, but he did as we are commanded to do when we commit sins against God. He confessed his sin.

I did not name Ted Haggard to condemn the man. Just so ya know.

I am thinking that to call it sin, Jaaman, I would appreciate your reading the link I supplied in this thread and consider the matters of the spiritual man, the heart...

OD

I read some from that site OD. I have to say, it sounds like it is someone who is trying to go around what the bible says about homosexuality to have it be acceptable behavior in the church. There is a lot of that going around. That would be like going to a church where the pastor shows up drunk every sunday morning to preach to about how to live. How would you like to go to a church like that?

He 'confessed' after he was exposed. He didn't confess out of shame or honor so he could keep his post and continue to appear as if he had a moral supremacy against those 'evil gays that are invading America', while he was banging a male prostitute. Oh yeah, real honorable.

The bottom line is that this thread is NOT about Ted Haggard - or any other public figure, for that matter.

It is (was) about what the Bible says about homosexuality.

Clearly, the Bible says it is detestable to God. That much is not up for debate.


What IS up for debate is things such as...
- Whether or not you believe the Bible to be authoritative.
- Whether or not you believe the Bible has anything to do with life today.
- How Christians ought to behave toward, and deal with, homosexuals.


But let's not be acting like we cannot figure out what the Bible actually says about homosexuality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson The bottom line is that this thread is NOT about Ted Haggard - or any other public figure, for that matter.

Good thing to stay on topic, hey, Jefferson?

Well okay let's look at the issue of whether or not homosexuality IS sin per the Bible. Are you very very certain that the adominishments are not against male prostitution and pedaphile acts, especially as they were participated in at temples built to other gods? And what of gang rape?

Are you very certain that the Bible is truly translated and interpreted to mean that a homosexual relationship that is monagamous, committed and loving is sin?

Did it ever occur to anyone else here that the Bible is not authoritative either? God is. And it says in the Bible that whatever is not of faith is sin.
If we have our relationship with God built on the sole foundation of a book and limited to it, then where is the faith? Did God not say that he would write his laws in our hearts? Can anyone here say that a gay believer is NOT listening to his heart, not living by faith? I think not!

OD

What about the Metropolitan Community Church? As I understand, it is very gay-friendly and Christ-centered at the same time.

First of all, I have NOT tried to mandate anything biblical here. I'm simply saying, "this is what the Bible says."

I think it's fair assume that when the Bible says something is "detestable" that it probably means God isn't very happy about it!

Also, there is nothing that indicates - in the texts - that the Bible is talking about predators, prostitutes and/or pedophiles. I'm guessing it would have said that, if that is what was being talked about.

Is it possible that the Bible is incorrectly translated from the original languages? Yes, I'm sure it is. But I don't think it's likely. It wasn't just "one person with an opinion" that did the translating. There have literally been thousands of people, over many years, doing independent translations. I think their "consensus" is probably pretty accurate.

Is the Bible authoritative? Not to a lot of people. That's very obvious, and that's fair - if they simply will be honest and say, "I just don't care."

And yes, I'm sure that most gays are acting and living "according to their hearts". But then again, it's likely that most pedophiles are too.