Gender Differences in the Creation of Man - Page 5

Rod · 01-13-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

What I don't understand is how an endlessly compassionate, loving, and forgiving god could cast his children into eternal punishment for sins that, in a world as fleeting and fragile as the world, are pale in comparison to other, more serious crimes. So somebody is a homosexual? Others have raped, murdered, stolen, and caused mayhem. Are they really all the same? More importantly, why would sinners, already repentant and changed by purifying fire, be further tormented needlessly?

I am curious. Where do you get that God shall cast his children into eternal punishment?

Antithesis · 01-13-2007, 08:58 PM

Well, yeah, but I mean why would a god of forgiveness decide permanent torture is a viable option for the wicked? Doesn't everybody have the opportunity to repent, especially after a little stint in purgatory where they learn their lesson (some would obviously require more "learning," seeing as a rebellious kid isn't equivalent to a mass murderer)?

Rod · 01-13-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Well, yeah, but I mean why would a god of forgiveness decide permanent torture is a viable option for the wicked? Doesn't everybody have the opportunity to repent, especially after a little stint in purgatory where they learn their lesson (some would obviously require more "learning," seeing as a rebellious kid isn't equivalent to a mass murderer)?

In short your explaination hits the high points. Beisides do we not suffer ourselves here in this place judgment dwells for the most part.

Antithesis · 01-13-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

In short your explaination hits the high points. Beisides do we not suffer ourselves here in this place judgment dwells for the most part.

I don't understand what you're saying.

Rod · 01-14-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

In short your explaination hits the high points. Beisides do we not suffer ourselves here in this place judgment dwells for the most part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Well, yeah, but I mean why would a god of forgiveness decide permanent torture is a viable option for the wicked? Doesn't everybody have the opportunity to repent, especially after a little stint in purgatory where they learn their lesson (some would obviously require more "learning," seeing as a rebellious kid isn't equivalent to a mass murderer)?

The question is answered in your statement if you look at it as seeing rebellious children.

"Does everyone have the opportunity to repent?" I would consider the answer to be a yes all are given that opportunity.

Maybe it would be more of reality to ask yourself will they all repent? Is everyone in the planet willing to repent at the same time for each one that doubts there is truly a living Spirit that many of us call God could see God's entire plan laid out all at one time.

Permanant torture of the wicked comes to the part of saying what is wicked? This would be determine on how you believe and what you believe. I can tell you what I beleive and the interpetation as I have seen or experienced. Another may have a whole different perspective on the matter. So one can only look into their own heart and examine it first. Plucking planks and pulling stickers can be a painful experience when you are working on oneself first.

I believe what Jesus stated is true. We fight not against flesh but principalities and spirits. So with that in mind I see wicked as that spirit that has encompassed many and taken over their flesh which in turn is doing evil deeds against one another(it only gets the flesh). So I do not see a problem with an evil spirit burning in a fire for eternity. I would consider it more like a reminder to try not to go there for those who have escaped the bounds of the death grip that the body of flesh has.

Ecclesiates 3:19-20-21 7:13

If you have as many children as the sands of the sea could these all be fit to live in peace and harmony in this world as it is today for an eternity? Would or could they all learn at the same pace?

01-14-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

God is sovereign, and ultimately and for all eternity, His will will prevail. And what is His will? A forever judgement, or a judgement that brings reconciliation of man to Himself, we know the answer, we see the cross!

I know your just going to ingore all I write here, but for the crowd, I'll go ahead anyway. His will, is that we have free will, to decide to come to him. His will is also that no man should parish, but he will not interfear with our free will, as he has said. He gave the cross to "All WHO BELIEVE ON HIM. These are his words, Not mine.

But to know just as much, God is a consuming fire, to know that even when Moses went up Sinai, there were limits set for the fire of God not to consume the people. Even Moses was not given a full and frontal view of the glory of God...why?

The God who is love and wills none should perish, we are hid with Christ in Him.

This only includes those that believe, again his words, not mine.

Hid from what?

And what of those who are not?

Is God not to them radiant in righteousness and judgment? His glorious fire.

What does fire do? Purify? Purge?

Depends on what fire your talking about. In the presents of God you are purified as fine medel. But if your cast into the "lake of fire" you will be there as punishment for ever. Again HIS WORDS, not mine.

Jesus Christ the same, yesterday today and forever.
Amen

The Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the World...when does He stop being the Savior?

When we choose for him not to be. His sheep hear his voice.

Will there be a place severed from the presence of God forever and ever?
According to him, YES there will be. Again His words, not mine.

How then in Adam all die, and in Christ all live
All who BELIEVE.

and He is all in all...how is that victory extolled when some He died for would not live, would not know His being their all, ultimately in them?
He said he came to bring sinners to repentance. If one refuses to meet him at that place, how can there be salvation? " How can one recieve eternal life? REPENT, and believe in the lord Jesus AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. Again, his words, not mine.

Would not a shorted reconciliation of mankind be an affront to His word, to His work, to the plan and purpose of God?
As long as you dont care what he has to say about it.

Or will death itself, destruction itself be thrown into the fire and when the cinders and the ash settle, what will there be?
It will, along with all those people not found written in the book of life. Again, his words, not mine.

Didn't even God tell the Hebrew exiles to return and use the charred stones to build the temple?

Will God do any less in building that forever living temple?
I dont see what this has to do with hell. A place Jesus talked about more than Heaven, and warned us time and time again its not a place you want to be.

How does anyone reconcile this in the Word, in your relationship with God, with the revelation of His eternal purpose and forever omni-attributes, and with the sure victory of Jesus Christ...

If There is an Eternal Hell populated by a spiritaully dead people...then how is death swallowed up in victory and how is the last enemy of God, death, defeated?
If there isnt a eternal hell, populated by the spiritually dead, than God is a lier, for he goes into great detail about it. But Death will be defeated as death its self will be cast in to lake of fire (along with those not found in the book of life) Never to be seem again.

Isn't this of his last enemy destroyed a promise and from our Great God who is total veracity?

This is about God's ultimate victory!

Again, is there an ultimate victory for God spoken of in the Word that included the maintaining of an eternal people spiritually dead?
Gods victory is for those he lead down the path to salvation, not for those who refused his free and more than generous gift.

Is there a victory of God by having sent His only begotten Son to reconcile the world to Himself, if the world be not reconciled to Him in totality?

According to him, YES

Is there a victory for God in either punishing forever or annihilating those that He created in His own image or is there a possible reconciliation spoken of in the Word that time, tradition and church dogma has obscured?
Perhaps. But maybe your just going with what your iching ears want to hear.

I am asking God to reconcile something for me, and that being the sum total of His Word and what His message is regarding the destiny of all people.

This is not about denying a judgement or the justice of God, this is not about denying the fear of the Lord. This is not turning God into some cuddly buddy.

This is not a departure from the revelation of salvation found by grace through faith and that in the finished work of Christ...it is a seeking to know how huge is that victory I so want to be His.

This is not about a departure from knowing, loving and worshipping Jesus the Son of God who suffered immeasurably for every person and did rise again in triumph over the grave.

This is not about a departure from the great commision and the gospel-telling mission that is ours to accomplish here and now for the saving of souls.
"This" is about denieing the biblical truth that there is a hell, and most people are going there. Lots of talking going on here, but no listening. Face head on the scriptures I posted regarding hell. Do you call them a lie? Would you have us believe God sent us only half the truth, THEN STRAIGHT LIED about the rest? Or even allowed men to corrupt his word? A word that he himself says hes bound to? If you could convince me that there isnt a hell, you will convince me there is no God.

This is only to ask where and when and how is God getting all, and share that belief that it is His to have and to hold complete and uncompromised victory...and what is victory if man's will has been made of eternal import to the negating of His will that none should perish.
Its also his will, that we decide for our selfs. You can see how they can conflict.

It is about all His enemies being defeated, death being the last. Man must be free from death. And when that death is defeated, swallowed up then death no longer holds man down, as his spirit flies to His Maker.

...how is the only true God getting all that is His to have? How does one look at death as an enemy of God destroyed and yet continuing?

How does one look at the Son of God who submitted in obedience to the Father to die for all mankind and that even as it says that God reconciling the World to Himself, if in fact somewhere in eternity ahead that not be what indeed is known?

Its not about looking at the Son of God, its about listening to him. What does he say about it? He says there is a hell, and most are going there. Again his words, not mine.

And how does one know that Christ be all in all, if there is a never ending place of torment where Christ be withheld, and not there be in all?
My question is, how does one argue with him regarding what he said to be true? Not one thing in this post so far deals directly with what Christ has to say about it. Why is it not important what he thinks? Why do we go on our own and call Christ a lier?

This to me is that the Lord is ministering to me a certain meeting place between that which is I think called Calvinism and then the other thought called something with an A about the free will of man. I believe that there is a meeting place of those two thoughts even as Christ is the Elect. It is Him, it is His. All glory to Jesus who deserves the highest praise and the uttermost triumph! And He is that One Man, the perfect man whose will is the synergy of God and man.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Key words here are "look to me"

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

This isnt saying that there isnt a hell, or that people wont be there.

The word swear in every tongue doing exactly that is meaning in the Hebrew to make allegiance to.
No doubt, John himself said that the folks going to hell will be without excuse, knowing all after standing before the lord. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess. Then according to the same word, he's going to send a bunch of them to hell.

I long for that moment when that which I hope for, that happy and all inclusive throng of every soul ever given life joining in the chorus of praise and allegiance to our loving King and faithful friend: Jesus the Savior of All Mankind.

I would love nothing more for everyone to get a free ride, But according to the word of God it just isnt so. I feel like Im kinda the bad guy in this thread, But I wont compromise on the word of God, it is what it is. If you answer any thing I've posted here, please answer this. Why would Jesus Christ himself spend more time warning us about hell, then talking about heaven? Its real, the scriptures are real. You telling people that there going to heaven no matter how they live is leading astray, and frankly could put one in a dangerous place.

A JumpStart on The Partay!!!

OD

.

01-14-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

Neither can you Jay and don't attempt to twist my words.
I dont try to. I listen to his whole message. Taking outta the bible what you want to hear and ignoring the many scriptures pertaining to hell and all who are going there is taking things outta context. How can you hold to part and say its truth, and ignore the rest. Then say your not ignoring the rest?

For you are also outside the gate. No worldly flesh shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. For Heaven is God's throne and we are living at the footstool.
Hey im not claiming to have any first hand knowledge. I just go by the only thing God left behind for us, in full.

Jesus said, "Two will be grinding at the mill, one shall be taken." Can you answer me this, which one is taken?
According to the scripture, the one who repented an walked up and took the generous gift that God has offered to man is the one who is taken. Jesus also said, "Many will be invited to the table, but few will be choosen"
For if you know not the answer to that question, you merely speak as a man of the world.
I dont claim to be any more than that. I just wish I could get a striaght answer as to why you guys believe parts of the bible, and not others.

Not one walking this earth is more important than the other. Only that son of perdition is lost. Discern which part of you rules your heart. For the Lord He knows mine.
Then why not submit to his whole word? Taking it all in as truth? He didnt leave us the bible to lead us astray. He 's the good sheperd, sent to lead us in his truths, through holy scripture. All im saying is we should believe him, and his word. Not just what parts we want to hear.If this is not the case, then explain to me how it isnt so.

I totaly agree that no man is more important than the other. We are all sinners, all in need of a salvation through Christ. "Is there one rightious among you? No. Not one" And the day we sin our first sin, we sinned every sin. That makes us in debt, to the law, owing our very lives. There is only 2 ways to pay for our debt to the law(which there is no way around). #1 eternal seperation from God, or #2 accepting that sacrifice Jesus gave, shedding his blood on the cross to cover our debt to the law. Through scripture, if one has refused the gift he gives freely, how then can he be saved? God said himself that he respects no man. With love I ask, how is this wrong?

.

01-14-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

What I don't understand is how an endlessly compassionate, loving, and forgiving god could cast his children into eternal punishment for sins that, in a world as fleeting and fragile as the world, are pale in comparison to other, more serious crimes. So somebody is a homosexual? Others have raped, murdered, stolen, and caused mayhem. Are they really all the same? More importantly, why would sinners, already repentant and changed by purifying fire, be further tormented needlessly?

As for myself, pondering hell left me deeply disturbed. I to couldnt imagine this all loving, all caring, all mercifull God, casting billions of people in eternal flames. Consious no less. So I asked God to justify this to me through his word. I at random opened the bible, and the first scripture I read was " Were you there when I set the sun and the stars?" Basicaly I felt God was telling me he need not explain anything to me. At that time I decided I wanted nothing more to do with a God who could do that to people. Whats crazy is, its not that I no longer believed (I had already seen to much of him to doubt his existance), I just didnt care anymore. Thankfully through his grace and mercy, He brought me back to the flock, (fullfilling his promise, that he is the good sheperd, and will leave the other sheep on the hill, to go after the one thats lost)I still have trouble contemplating hell, and why he would do such a thing, but I realize now that his ways are higher than my ways. Theres nothing I can do about it either way. So now I just plan to endure till the end, as he has commanded us to do. Understanding will be in full, on the day of judgment. I pray everyday that im on the right side of the fence come that day.

OhDear · 01-14-2007, 09:48 AM

JayD judges:

Quote:

I know your just going to ingore all I write here, but for the crowd, I'll go ahead anyway.

Heck, JayD, not a good way to start off a post...that hurt my feelings.

Let me supply you with a link that addresses hell and other issues that you might want to look at again and for the first time. Since you were only posting for 'the others' to read and not for me, I feel it best if I just give you a link rather than to personally write a reply.

Or for the "crowd" too...

TENTMAKER

OD

jaaaman · 01-14-2007, 09:52 AM

OhDear, I think it is important that you see this part of JayD's response:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohdear

I long for that moment when that which I hope for, that happy and all inclusive throng of every soul ever given life joining in the chorus of praise and allegiance to our loving King and faithful friend: Jesus the Savior of All Mankind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

I would love nothing more for everyone to get a free ride, But according to the word of God it just isnt so. I feel like Im kinda the bad guy in this thread, But I wont compromise on the word of God, it is what it is. If you answer any thing I've posted here, please answer this. Why would Jesus Christ himself spend more time warning us about hell, then talking about heaven? Its real, the scriptures are real. You telling people that there going to heaven no matter how they live is leading astray, and frankly could put one in a dangerous place.

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