Excerpt from MichNews.com Muslims converting to Christ - Page 6

tristanrobin · 01-11-2007, 07:36 PM

I mean this in the kindest way possible.
That may be your opinion...but I'm NOT going to "pass by" without making a solid stand. I'm not going to be ANOTHER person in a generation that doesn't want to make too big a wave.

Frankly, when YOUR rights, your future, your life, are threatened by injustice, unfairness and prejudice, THEN you can calmly say that it's okay to wait another generation or two because these things take time...and we don't want to alienate the people who are HARMING your family.

When YOUR children are forced out of a school because of who their parents are, THEN you can tell me that we should just take it a little slower.

Honestly, I don't think you'd wait all that long.

tristanrobin · 01-11-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

look over the past 100 years, look at the in-roads that the gay community has made! Look at the many many things that actually have changed for the better

As I said, there were good black people who said the same thing about lunch counter sit-ins and protests. They would say a hundred years ago they were slaves - look how far they've come! Don't be in such a rush. What are water fountains next to slavery? I understand what these people were feeling - just as I understand your point of view about gays being more gentle about their second class citizenship. I simply do not agree with it.

OhDear · 01-11-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Honestly, I don't think you'd wait all that long.

Tristan, you pre-judge me.

I would ask you, if you would be willing, and certainly not if you are not for any reason, but I would be truly caringly interested to read your testimony of coming out and the hardships you have had to face and overcome.
I do not mean to ask you though, if it would weigh to you like a personal exploitation. But if you could share to shed light on what has been your personal plight for claiming your identity as gay, I for one would read it with compassion and a desire to learn and grow and help in ways that might be possible.

OD

Jefferson · 01-11-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Did you even answer my question, or are you COPPING OUT??? What proof do you have of Tristan's infection? If you don't have it, then fine, just say it. No, HIV isn't immediately detectable, but it is in a few WEEKS, and THAT is why you are asked to remain abstinent for a certain period of time. If it can go undetected for a period as long as two years, why are we allowed to donate having had unprotected sex with somebody within that time constraint? How do we know that a person in a monogamous relationship didn't have their partner cheat and then both, unbeknownst to each other, had contracted HIV? Why isn't the statistic significantly higher?

I'm arguing against the law and arguing that though it isn't particularly good to lie on a form and give blood, there was no harm done, and furthermore, that the whole policy is based on prejudice because when it was created, back in the mid '80s, people were still using "AIDS: Kills Fags Dead" as a slogan and proclaiming it to be a gay disease.

That's all I'm saying, no more, no less. I have nothing to say to you which you will not brush off, and thus, I feel that my time would be better spent elsewhere.

Do I know that Trista has HIV/AIDS? No, of course not. I don't know him personally.

Do I know that the American Red Cross does not want his blood, because he's a practicing homosexual? YES, absolutely.

Does the American Red Cross have good reason to not want the blood of a practicing homosexual? Yes, they do.

Is it possible for a practicing homosexual to give blood THINKING it's fine, but in reality the virus just isn't detected yet? Yes, absolutely.

Is Trista lying and putting innocent people at risk? Yes, absolutely.

Are you aware that they've found the AIDS virus in men's semen, but it wasn't detectable in their blood? Hmmmmm...

Are you aware that the AIDS virus can go undetected for up to 3 years? Here's one for you - chew on this one for awhile, JUNIOR.

Quote:

HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, may go undetected for years in tests of an infected person's blood, according to a new study in California. The study of 133 homosexually active men, monitored since 1984, found several who did not make antibodies to the virus for up to 36 months after becoming infected. The standard tests for infection in people or in donated blood depend on the presence of antibodies to indicate that blood is infected.

Granted, that's an older study. But the fact that the AIDS virus can go undetected for a long period of time still rings true.

So, Antibodythesis... Are you willing to accept a blood transfusion from a blood bank that collects blood exclusively from practicing homosexuals? YES or NO? You know the answer to that question, and so do I. And you also know why you would answer NO - and so do I.

vharlow · 01-11-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanrobin

There is no legal way to change the policy. The Red Cross is a private organization, and they can make the eligibility rules as they please. Though gay rights organizations have been dealing with it for over fifteen years now, the Religious Right Wing Extremists in this country simply fight harder and harder, using all the hysterical rhetoric and untrue "statistics and facts" that alias and Jefferson use on this forum. It all goes to who screams the loudest. It shouldnt' be a big secret that the Religious Right can scream louder than a roomful of two-year-olds at three in the afternoon without a nap. The gay community has tried to find a way to "scream" louder - and in a way that makes their point clear.

Though I completely understand your point of view - and there are many who agree with you - I don't agree with it. The equality of gay citizens in the USA has been going on for almost a century. I think the time period for being polite about it is just about used up. There are some gay extremists who advocate actual violence - riots, bombings, etc. I DON'T agree with them. I believe there's room in the middle for civil disobedience, protests and visibility events without resorting to either violence OR becoming invisible (again). Unfortunately, we live in a country where nobody listens to you or cares what you have to say until you say it in a way that actually personally affects them. I feel the civil disobedience that is being committed in regards to donating clean, untainted blood falls in that middle ground.
However, many people disagree with making waves. Don't forget, there were MANY black organizations that did NOT agree with lunch counter sit-in's and bus boycotts, etc. They wanted everything to be more civil and acceptable...and in a way that wouldn't cause 'backlash.'

What untrue statistics and facts?

Washington Times is concerned and with good cause.

What statistics are you saying are untrue? What are the true facts about the percentage of the population that is homosexual?

Fact is, I've been reading this argument, since this was my thread that was hijacked, and I gotta say.... since 48% of the HIV/AIDS patients are homosexual, it's reasonable that THEY be required to provide proof that their blood is NOT contaminated. Same goes for intravenous drug users.

If you must tell everyone here, and probably elsewhere, that you are indeed a practicing homosexual, (more information than they probably want to know) why lie to the Red Cross and risk contaminating the blood supply? There is a risk. You can hardly claim it's shameful to admit at the Red Cross that you are homosexual...since you tell everyone.

Of course, blabbing that you lied about it in a public forum was not very smart. Jefferson may be relentless in his reminding everyone of this, but I don't really think anyone should be defending such behavior, and you shouldn't be justifying it.

Risking your own person is one thing, but it's reasonable to say that what you did amounts to gross negligence that risks the lives of others.

Are you planning on doing that again?

Jefferson · 01-11-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanrobin

You have to understand, if Jefferson can't attack people, he has lost his debating technique. He's never really right about anything - but if he can be hateful enough to others, he can sort of act as if he's won by their refusal to communicate any longer with him. He can pretend that he's better than they are (by self-appointed superiority) and pretend that it's somehow pertinent to the discussion. Sort of a combination between dishonesty and bullying.

Now, if the blood can contain a virus up to two years (UP TO - it's VERY RARE that it shows up that late), it makes absolute perfect sense that somebody who has regularly tested negative for almost 20 years is clean. It doesn't take a braintrust.

OD - They are not laws. They are guidelines for eligibility. If these were laws, there would be consequences, and there would be thousands of people fined/jailed because of it.

All your "spin" does not change the FACT that you knowingly LIED and, as a result, put innocent people at risk of receiving infected blood.

Jefferson · 01-11-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Let's just get back to topic. I get the feeling that Jefferson is gonna come back with another rant, and we already wasted three pages dealing with him. Know what? Let's just not respond when he tries to personally attacks people. Seems like more an argument out of desperation anyway.

You're a hypocrite. And not a very smart one at that.

You'll defend Trista's SICK behavior, but you know darned well that you would NEVER knowingly accept a blood transfusion from a blood bank that exclusively draws blood from practicing homosexuals.

Jefferson · 01-11-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

Tristan, if you look over the past 100 years, look at the in-roads that the gay community has made! Look at the many many things that actually have changed for the better.

All these have been achieved by gaining trust and respect among the public that otherwise was unenlightened regarding issues of equality with the gblt communities.

Now is not the time to change tactics, imho. You do and you will set back the cause and do great damage to those who have patiently and honorably gone before. Again, imho...

OD

...and then you have stupid, selfish people like Trista who DESTROY that trust, and DESTROY credibility - and think it's funny - or that it's some supreme form of "civil disobedience."

Yep, Trista is to the gay community what Cindy Sheehan is to the anti-war movement: A detriment.

Jefferson · 01-11-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharlow

What untrue statistics and facts?

Washington Times is concerned and with good cause.

What statistics are you saying are untrue? What are the true facts about the percentage of the population that is homosexual?

Fact is, I've been reading this argument, since this was my thread that was hijacked, and I gotta say.... since 48% of the HIV/AIDS patients are homosexual, it's reasonable that THEY be required to provide proof that their blood is NOT contaminated. Same goes for intravenous drug users.

If you must tell everyone here, and probably elsewhere, that you are indeed a practicing homosexual, (more information than they probably want to know) why lie to the Red Cross and risk contaminating the blood supply? There is a risk. You can hardly claim it's shameful to admit at the Red Cross that you are homosexual...since you tell everyone.

Of course, blabbing that you lied about it in a public forum was not very smart. Jefferson may be relentless in his reminding everyone of this, but I don't really think anyone should be defending such behavior, and you shouldn't be justifying it.

Risking your own person is one thing, but it's reasonable to say that what you did amounts to gross negligence that risks the lives of others.

Are you planning on doing that again?

BINGO!

tristanrobin · 01-11-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

I would ask you, if you would be willing, and certainly not if you are not for any reason, but I would be truly caringly interested to read your testimony of coming out and the hardships you have had to face and overcome.

Personally? Honestly, not very much. I have been one of the lucky ones. I don't particularly physically fit the gay stereotype, so I'm not one of the gay people who get things thrown at them from moving cars, or beat up coming out of bars. I'm a big guy with waist length hair, a beard, and lots of tattoos. LOL I'm sure that, even for all his big talk, Jefferson wouldn't be messing with me in real life LOL.

So, no, my coming out wasn't that much to overcome. I grew up in a fairly evolved community - and then went to college and grad school in NYC and lived there for awhile - and now live in a very accepting community. However, that is not the experience of many, many, many others. There are some issues (diverstity training in schools, campaigns for equal discrimination laws, etc) that I fight for in order for OTHERS to reap the benefit. I've also fought for black civil rights - and I didn't do it 'for me' -there was nothing in it for me.

Now, as a maturing adult, however, I have come to realize how really horribly the inequality of the laws are for maturing and elderly gay couples - and singles. I don't WANT to be thrown out of my home if my partner dies because of inheritance taxes that I would never have if I were allowed to legally marry. I do not WANT to be a story or statistic from a previous generation to use as an example while THEY'RE still fighting for equality.

But, what I have run across is the most vicious and angry bunch of bigots on the internet since I started using it to discuss equality issues. I have saved many of them to use in art pieces and installations. Tell me, how willing would YOU be to be civilized, polite and kind to the sort of person who would write one of these posts?
#431112by: mr_incredibly_cool_rocks Gays to be placed in the army? If they are, hopefully they'll be used as human shields!!!

#65084 by dpissedoff: “As they strap you to the gurney and attach the electrodes think of how your life will be so much more improved....you can thank me later.”

#65106 by homophobehankisback: “Frontal lobotomy is the only cure for the sickness of homosexuality. That or death!”

#65107 “>hey numbnut, the Nazi's already did that, gays were put in camps just like the jews. <
Maybe we will have more success the second time around! With both!!!”

#13853 by dwyer53a “for the last 4 years you have been the whiner. you will be for the next 4.
and if someone at the airport cracks you and your thweetie alongside your fag heads for being obnoxious in public....thats your problem.
I know I've bashed an obnoxious fag or two for conduct in front of my kids in public places.
here's a clue........it's RARE that anyone will call a cop for you. LOL “

#65065 by davidduke4prez “We need a special type of Auschwitz for the homos. We can work them to death, then use them as fertilizer.”

#65075 “I have a dream that all the filthy shitskin homos will catch that new form of AIDS and be dead within 6 months. Or less.”

#65079 by homophobehankisback: in a discussion about MLK…”well part of my dream is to eliminate all the neggars, too, so I guess we are even. Oh, nope, he's 6 feet under right now and I'm not, so I guess I'm one up on him!”

#74709 by homophobehankisback
Me and my buddies are goin' cruisin' for some whiny fag-boys to hurt. I hope that some of you homoz on this board will be among our victims!

#74722 by homophobe_hank_is_back
A shotgun wedding, with the priest blowing the faqgots' heads off with a 12-gauge!!!

# 76678 By: kabbamelt
Aside from that I am advocating a return to seriously enforced re-criminalization of homosexuality, as a part of a general renewal of the healthy suppression of those behaviors.
Can we wipe them out forever? No, we get new shoplifters, rapists and arsonists with each generation but we suppress them with the force of law too.
Execution? Male on male anal intercourse being the most biologically dangerous animal activity on the planet, yes to capital punishment, absolutely.

Msg: 81403 by: johnny_psunami
They ought to dig up Matthew Sheppard!
And beat the crap out of him again!!!

#558 by homos_ri_sickos
We should deploy the Marines into allthe big cities to hunt down and kill this kind of scum. A whore is bad enough, but this type of pervert needs to be eliminated!

#429921 by Johnny psunami
The end of homosexuality is near! It will be back in the closet or death squad for you soon, phags!

#430756 by lorddragon_jsh
Wow that is rude. Protesting gay deaths. We should be partying! Another Ass Pirate with AIDS bites the dust. Frees up medicare, medicaid, and the best thing of all, keeps the drug companies from having to make those AIDS drugs. Now they can concentrate on making drugs that actually save real families. I never protest a gay funeral. I pop open a can of soda, whip out the chips and salsa and dance the riverdance on their graves....

#430816 by lorddragon_jsh
until you understand, your gay crap is not wanted or needed, its a bullet in the skull. What I want is for my armies to be turned loose on the streets of san franciso. String your sorry asses up on the highest trees and watch you twitch. Revenge for killing innocent children. Revenge for bringing AIDS here. Revenge, revenge, revenge. You want death, come to me. Ill give it to you.

#96934 by johnny sumani
National holiday for Matthew Sheppard!
Where we can gather and beat the holy hell out of phags and phag-lovers. BEAT THEM TO DEATH!!!

The end of homosexuality is near!
by: johnny_psunami 03/16/05 01:26 am
Msg: 429921 of 430653
IT WILL BE BACK IN THE CLOSET OR DEATH SQUAD FOR YOU SOON, PHAGS!

We should deploy the Marines into all
by: homos_r_sickos 03/07/05 11:57 pm
Msg: 558 of 570
3 recommendations
the big cities to hunt down and kill this kind of scum. A whore is bad enough, but this type of pervert needs to be eliminated!

Prayer for the homosexuals
by: slaide01
01/20/06 12:20 pm
Msg: 109028 of 109481
1 recommendation
Lord may you spare the homosexuals AIDS long enough to find your salvation and if they reject it may you grant them a swift death so as not to spread their vile deviance to others.
AMEN
http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?a...445&mid=109028

Interestingly, I've also discovered that when you find a hard-core homophobe, if you scratch it, you will find a racist and anti-semite just below the surface.

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