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But I guess you didnt really want to talk about it?

Global warming started getting really bad about the same time, too. Is there also a correlation between praying with Ms. Watson in homeroom and the ozone layer?

I've read posts from racists who say that all the problems started when we allowed blacks into "our" schools and neighborhoods. They don't blame prayer - they blame race.

I think things have gotten worse since some Christian Right Extremists started pushing an agenda to make everybody in the country live under Christian dogma and rule ... it makes people deeply angry to be TOLD to pray.

When I was in school, there were some prayers (my school years were the transition years) - and yet, we still had drugs, we still had drunk drivers, we still had pregnant girls (for some reason always in the data processing and typing classes :P), and high school dropouts. There were still punks beating up those who were weaker - and there were still jocks getting the benefit of the doubt from teachers on their exams and homework.

I don't think things are worse - I think there are MORE people - I think it makes the news more (with 24 hours news stations, they have to fill the hours SOMETIME between invasions) often.

And if prayer has anything to do with school conditions, why are Catholic high schools NOTORIOUS for mishaved kids?!

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You make the mistake that many right wing Christians make ... just because somebody is not interested in our government being dictated to by a religious group, does NOT mean that they're anti-Christian!

I'm not anti-Christian! I am a member, regular church-attending, committee-membering Christian LOL. But just because I'm a Christian does NOT mean that I'm not able to understand the importance of a separation of church and state in a democratic republic.

Again, no problem with Christians from me. And I LIKE that I live in a democratic republic in which the minority is supposed to be legally protected from the whims and caprices of the majority.

With that said Jay I believe that believers and followers of Jesus should be building schools for the children. We should also be able to get the state and federal credits that public schools now get to help offset the cost. Creating schools to teach the basics of education without the influences that strongly teach hatred towards our faith and beliefs. It would stop a lot of confusion and solve a major education crisis. Homeschoolers in rural areas should be helped and given these credits also if they were willing to teach others children. If homeschoolers were given the wasted tax dollars now recieved by public schools more children could recieve better educations.

JayD,

First of all, this thread is titled "what the hell happened to Christianity".
As such, this isn't a discussion just about YOUR Christianity, but Christianity in general. And various aspects of Christianity which have reared their ugly head over time.
With that said, I'm not stereo-typing Christianity. If I haven't been explicit enough, the examples I talk about are just examples of some people's Christianity. Not indicative of the entire group.
With that said...

This being a perfect example.
I am referencing the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
I have never claimed that you shared their statements. And if I implied that I did, that was a mistake as it was not my intent.

With that said, the commentary I WAS referencing is a huge reason why people see something "wrong" with Christianity today.
If you want to discuss that, that would be great.
If you want to start up your own thread entitled "What the Hell Happened to JayD's Christianity", I think that might be a more important venue for fixating just on your personal interpretation while ignoring the rest...


See Above...


Specifics?
Demanding prayer in school when our constitution obviously forbids it.
Demanding that Christian symbology be placed on government land where they have no right to demand it. (This is amusingly enough often coupled with complaints of BOTH anti-Christian discrimination [when it's actually a secular issue] and claims that the symbology's purpose is not Christian. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.)
Demanding their theology basics be taught in school alongside science, like "creation science".
Obstruction of necessary research like stem cells and the like.


Not at all.
But if the SOLE justification for their voice is grounded in religion, then that voice cannot be reflected in law.




What is the "saddest" part is that this country is 75% Christian.
If "Christians" in general WANTED it to be a "natural expression", they could MAKE IT SO in their own private lives.
And instead of fixing that, and working within your OWN CONGREGATIONS and YOUR OWN LIVES, instead we get inane platitudes calling on Jesus.

What's that phrase?
The Lord helps those who help themselves?
Figure it out for yourself...


Let me guess. Crap you've gotten from a chain e-mail which you turned around and tossed in other people's e-mail inboxes??

No. I don't know how many kids are stabbed everday.
Do you?
Please. Enlighten me.
And please provide proof of your statement while you're at it.

The number one cause of death amongst teen-agers is alcohol and alcohol related accidents. It has been for quite a while.
Christian kids boozing it up alongside the atheist kids and the other religions...

But of course, we can't blame THAT on anybody but the parents, so let's focus instead on abortion because THAT we can put some political zing into our religious indoctrination.


There are some issues of "evil" growing in our school systems.
And some elements of Christianity are attempting to use such tragedies to further their own political goals.
How would you recommend we fix this "evil"? Stop abortion? Bring prayer back in the schools? Sing "Kum-by-yah" and the ostracized kid will forget all his problems and it will all be good again?


Of course not. Why should we look at examples of these things when we can just ignore them altogether...

What "strong influences?" Last I checked there weren't any classes promoting atheism in public schools. College is different, but that's largely private anyway and those classes are voluntary. Public schools are meant to be religiously neutral, not antireligious. It's not gonna hurt people to, as you put it, "Take God out of school." There's no empirical evidence suggesting a prevalence of violence or drug abuse in secular schools. Hell, mine is incredibly secular and diverse to boot, and it's the safest in the county. On the other hand, the local catholic school has a shocking prevalence of drugs and alcohol.

In christianity, blessings are dependent on individuals, not the groups they belong to. Nobody was punishing Columbine for being too secular. That borders on the "God Hates America" bullshit the Westboro Baptist Church preaches.

Individual atheists are strong influences, and that's only because they're so self-righteous and pompous that they're no better than pentecostals and evangelicals who try to push for prayer in schools. The aim isn't to press one religion, but to press no religion. School is for learning. I go to school to learn, and if I ever decided to have my spiritual needs met, I'd go to church.

That is a fantastic Idea. We would also have to set some laws in place making colleges recognize home school degrees. From what I understand there is some friction regarding that. The only problem I see with building the schools is, who will fund them? We would be seriously disappointed if we think the goverment will flip the bill for it. The tax payers would be screaming to the roof tops. But Im all for trying to make that happen.

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