the people like jay and rod and others of the ilk are so self-impressed that they actually believe that they know everything there is to know - and that billions of other people couldn't possibly know anything about the issue.

the only people they consider "christians" are people who believe exactly as they do. jay has also dissed the RCC - which, most people would certainly consider a Christian religion.

I feel kinda sorry for them actually. They've built such a strong wall around themselves, using misguided Bibilical interpretation to validate anything they KNOW would be untenable without SOME foundation, that they have no interest in broadening their knowledge or their experience.

I'm not Christian.
I never claimed to be.

And quite frankly, I am amused by the whole aspect of Christians telling each other that they aren't "Christian".
What definition do you use?
Do you rely on a belief in Jesus as Savior?
Or does it actually require Christ-like behavior?

Because quite frankly, it's amusing how many "Christians" on the right spend so much time avoiding any directives actually issued by Christ...


If you say so...
Quite frankly, I see it as absurd melodrama.

There are some problems that need to be fixed.
But to pretend that there is no saving this country is ridiculous.
It relies primarily on an exaggeration of the issues at hand.

You never did answer how many kids are stabbed per day.
I was guessing you had no clue yourself, and were just guessing at the answer.


The issue of "really Christian" is just an attempt to shift the blame.
Some Muslims talk about how many are "real Muslims" in order to ignore those Muslims that take on violence and terrorism.

Which are the really important fundamentals of Christianity?
What makes on a REAL Christian, as opposed to a faux Christian?


Have you seen Republican campaigns recently?
And Democrats too for that matter?
Both attempt to derive power from their religious claims, as they focus on different aspects of the bible to arrive at virtually contradictory conclusions.
Both sides are guilty of it.


Man. If I had a dollar for every time somebody tried that cop-out.
And to think you talked earlier about "spinning" things.

I talk about the effectiveness of your arguments, and how you aren't effective when you quit the field, and you try to turn that into a martyr complex and try to compare yourself to Christ.
THAT is SPIN!


Speaking about spin.
(And I was also earlier commenting on people pretending to be victims in the complete absence of discrimination...)
HOW are you "persecuted"?

Get off the cross. Some of us would like the wood to try and FIX things in this country...


And this was the coup de grace of the spin...
I was just talking about how ineffectual you were in AVOIDING ALL DISCUSSION...
... and now you pretend you are "knocking them outta the park"???

Yeah. You REALLY do that when you refuse to respond. Which is what my comment you are responding to was ORIGINALLY about.


And more spin from JayD.
No. It's not at all "premature" when YOU are making statements like: "Im not going to bother with the rest of this train wreak of a post."
It's not premature at all when you ACTUALLY hit the "reply" button, but what you actually type is not a reply...

And for the record, I didn't see your post. I saw it today when the thread was revived.
But then again, that's just your SPIN in attempting to compare YOU SAYING you're not going to respond, to me not seeing the post in the first place and obviously cannot respond to what I didn't see...

spin?
it's arrogant blasphemy

That's one thing I love about the whole "credit" thing for private schools.
They want the American tax-payer to pay for their RELIGIOUS schools, which in some cases won't even take some of the people who pay the taxes for the "credit".

They'll take the tax money of gays, but won't employ them or let them go to their school.
They'll take the tax money of atheists, but whether or not they get into the school is a matter requiring discussion and debate.

Hell. If they get a "credit" for sending their kid to private school, I want a "credit" for not having a kid. Why the hell should I have to pay so that it makes their pocket book happier when they indoctrinate their kid?

That's exactly why I don't believe any of this "Faith Based Initiative" crap. It takes money from people of all faiths to give to a few, meaning the state is publicly sponsoring religion. I don't care whether you're a believer in atheism or christian identity, you have to admit that violates the entire principle of separation of church and state. Now I'm just gonna answer some of JayD's questions. Screw it, if you decide to use your beliefs I get to use mine.

JayD, I'm starting to think you really are a bigot.
If truth makes me a bigot, than I welcome it with open arms
Ah, so your logic is obviously perfect, no flaws. How presumptuous of you.


You seemed reasonable enough, before, but you actually believe that anybody who doesn't believe in Jesus will go to hell?
Well sure. I dont know how you thought other wise.
Even when I was catholic I recognized that there were parts of the Bible which were either insignificant or in contradiction to the concept of an understanding and forgiving god. I also recognized the hypocrisy in many parts of the Bible and how despite all the crap about stoning people to death and orchestrating the mass murder of every firstborn child in Egypt, the core of christianity is rooted in compassion and love, not damning anyone who doesn't believe.

I have to laugh at this.
Jesus wouldnt
Have you talked to him recently?

I get the feeling that your religion is only a smokescreen for more deep seated issues.
I dont have a religion, I have a relationship with Jesus Christ, your problem is with him and his teachings, not with me.
My problem is with narrow-minded fools who don't realize each philosophy, each set of values, has its own flaws and who never bother to see them.

I'm being entirely serious on this one. Whoever thinks that there's some kind of plot against America by homosexuals, humanists, and jews is a dangerously closed-minded and hateful person.
There is a "plot" by homosexuals to indoctrine our children in to thinking its safe, normal, and moral. Do you denie this? I got nothing but love for everyone, though. Especialy the Jews.
Well then hide the kids, it sounds like the attack of the Village People of the Damned! I'd love to see actual evidence of a massive, organized conspiracy against the church, otherwise you can't actually say anything about a "plot." Otherwise I find the accuracy of that statement comparable to that of Eurabia and the Jewish World Banking Conspiracy.

[quote=foundit66;70269]I'm not Christian.
I never claimed to be.What is it about that statment that makes you think I thought you were a christian? I know your not a Christian.

And quite frankly, I am amused by the whole aspect of Christians telling each other that they aren't "Christian".
What definition do you use?Its biblical, you wouldnt understand
Do you rely on a belief in Jesus as Savior?
Or does it actually require Christ-like behavior?If the first part were true, the second goes hand in hand.

Because quite frankly, it's amusing how many "Christians" on the right spend so much time avoiding any directives actually issued by Christ...
I agree, there not really christians at all. Jesus said a man will be known by his fruit.



If you say so...
Quite frankly, I see it as absurd melodrama.

There are some problems that need to be fixed.
But to pretend that there is no saving this country is ridiculous.
It relies primarily on an exaggeration of the issues at hand.
We'll see.
You never did answer how many kids are stabbed per day.
I was guessing you had no clue yourself, and were just guessing at the answer.



The issue of "really Christian" is just an attempt to shift the blame.
How? You yourself showed that most of the christian community is just as screwed up as everyone else. If Christ was really in all those who claimed, there would definitly a seperation of them from the norm, but there isnt. "Not all who say to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom."
Some Muslims talk about how many are "real Muslims" in order to ignore those Muslims that take on violence and terrorism.So do liberals. You all are the one that now call them "insurgence" instead of terrorists

Which are the really important fundamentals of Christianity?
What makes on a REAL Christian, as opposed to a faux Christian?
"You will know them by there fruit"


Have you seen Republican campaigns recently?
And Democrats too for that matter?
Both attempt to derive power from their religious claims, as they focus on different aspects of the bible to arrive at virtually contradictory conclusions.
Both sides are guilty of it.
No doubt. Im no republican.


Man. If I had a dollar for every time somebody tried that cop-out.
And to think you talked earlier about "spinning" things.

I talk about the effectiveness of your arguments, and how you aren't effective when you quit the field, and you try to turn that into a martyr complex and try to compare yourself to Christ.
THAT is SPIN!
Whatever, its he who told me, I didnt make it up myself.


Speaking about spin.
(And I was also earlier commenting on people pretending to be victims in the complete absence of discrimination...)Like homosexuals?

And quite frankly, I am amused by the whole aspect of Christians telling each other that they aren't "Christian".
What definition do you use?
Its biblical, you wouldnt understand
Ahh yes. Ignoring the question with yet another excuse.
Even if I wouldn't understand, others could read it and see your reply.
But you're not interested in that. You're just interested in a lame excuse to avoid the question...


Do you rely on a belief in Jesus as Savior?
Or does it actually require Christ-like behavior?
If the first part were true, the second goes hand in hand.
So I take it then that you don't believe?


Because quite frankly, it's amusing how many "Christians" on the right spend so much time avoiding any directives actually issued by Christ...
I agree, there not really christians at all. Jesus said a man will be known by his fruit.
And just out of curiousity, what has been your "fruit" on this message board?


You never did answer how many kids are stabbed per day.
I was guessing you had no clue yourself, and were just guessing at the answer.
And without any surprise, I note that there is STILL no answer to this question. Ever the presumption of the situation. Not even bothering to figure out the reality of the situation.


The issue of "really Christian" is just an attempt to shift the blame.
How? You yourself showed that most of the christian community is just as screwed up as everyone else. If Christ was really in all those who claimed, there would definitly a seperation of them from the norm, but there isnt. "Not all who say to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom."
ROFLMAO!
See. This is PRECISELY what I'm talking about...
A PRETENSE that Christianity makes one better. And that must be the case, because all those who are Christian are better. And those who claim they are Christian but not better are obviously faking.
The self-justifying delusion. Defining oneself to be an improvement based solely on definition.


Some Muslims talk about how many are "real Muslims" in order to ignore those Muslims that take on violence and terrorism.
So do liberals. You all are the one that now call them "insurgence" instead of terrorists
Ahh yes.
Avoid my point and go for a lame pot-shot at "liberals".
Precisely what I was talking about regarding an insistence in incorporating politics and religion together.


Which are the really important fundamentals of Christianity?
What makes on a REAL Christian, as opposed to a faux Christian?
"You will know them by there fruit"
I've known quite a few good people who weren't Christian who did a lot of good works as well.
Does that make them Christian?
Or must they automatically be Christian if they are morally better than others?


Man. If I had a dollar for every time somebody tried that cop-out.
And to think you talked earlier about "spinning" things.
I talk about the effectiveness of your arguments, and how you aren't effective when you quit the field, and you try to turn that into a martyr complex and try to compare yourself to Christ.
THAT is SPIN!
Whatever, its he who told me, I didnt make it up myself
Yeah. That's what makes it so hilarious.
They persecuted Hitler too. He claimed to be Christian.
Oh wait. It's that whole "fruits" thing again whereby since he obviously wasn't good, then he must not be Christian.
Silly me to forget how you defined that away...
< end sarcasm >

It's funny how Christians, who act very unlike Christ, pretend that the reason they are disliked is because of their "Christianity".
When in fact, it's their very unChristlike actions which is the problem.
Tell me. How many people did Mother Theresa piss off? How many people hated her?
Oh wait. She's Catholic, isn't she. And thus obviously crossed off your list.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever paused to notice that the people left on your list are ONLY the ones who interpret Christianity just like you do?


Speaking about spin.
(And I was also earlier commenting on people pretending to be victims in the complete absence of discrimination...)
Like homosexuals?[/quote]
Lame attempt at a retort.
Every issue of discrimination I speak of is real.
This will be yet another one-hit wonder reply where you promptly drop the issue, won't it.
Are you contesting some aspect of discrimination with regards to homosexuals?
Or was your reply an attempt to pretend to be witty, but completely fail at backing up your words once again?

,

"You will know them by their fruit."

By that I assume you mean that good people do good deeds in the same way that upon good trees grow good fruit.

So then by your logic, you claim, in contradiction to Jesus' teachings, that not only the fruit (let's say oranges as an example) have to be tasty, but the tree has to be the right variety. Thus, only eating from an orange tree is acceptable. Apples, pears, and peaches are out of the question, even though they all taste fine and won't make you sick. Grapes must be out of the question, too, because they grow on vines. Who cares if it's delicious and nutritious, IT'S A GRAPE!!!

In the real world, you're saying that a man can be a great philanthropist, save hundreds of lives, or just act as a good person would on a regular basis, btu if he's a Jew, Buddhist, Atheist, or Muslim, he can't go to heaven. What about those who haven't even heard of Jesus? What are they supposed to do?