Antithesis wrote, directed to JayD:Change that to figs, and fig trees. JayD is into figs...

Antithesis wrote:To the Christians, proof is not required. You will note that their doctrines are classified for BELIEVERS, and society is pigeonholed into two categories: BELIEVERS, and UNBELIEVERS. They don't really need proof, just need to BELIEVE that it is true. That is all that is required.

another boardicide

again, that is the arrogance of a person who thinks they know everything. If anybody dares to presume that you might learn something about the issue, you pick up your marbles and run away.

It is INCREDIBLY hypocritical to call people ugly things and say ugly things about them - and THEN haven the nerve to say that you can't express the love that is needed to spread the message. You're nothing but a pharisee.

You might be interested in this report then.

HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

Academic Statistics on Homeschooling




1. In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile. i


This was confirmed in another study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homeschooled students which found the homeschoolers who have homeschooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades. ii This is a good encouragement to families catch the long-range vision and homeschool through high school.


Another important finding of Strengths of Their Own was that the race of the student does not make any difference. There was no significant difference between minority and white homeschooled students. For example, in grades K-12, both white and minority students scored, on the average, in the 87th percentile. In math, whites scored in the 82nd percentile while minorities scored in the 77th percentile. In the public schools, however, there is a sharp contrast. White public school eighth grade students, nationally scored the 58th percentile in math and the 57th percentile in reading. Black eighth grade students, on the other hand, scored on the average at the 24th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. Hispanics scored at the 29th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. iii


These findings show that when parents, regardless of race, commit themselves to make the necessary sacrifices and tutor their children at home, almost all obstacles present in other school systems disappear.

More at HSLDA site link above.

Taxpayers have fits because of the discrepancy between minority children and others. Yet with homeschooling, black children are just as far ahead of public school children as their white counterparts. Clearly, racism is endemic and institutionalized in the public schools. I know this will make some people unhappy, but it's true. Yes, there are lots of successful kids in the public schools, but it's to their individual credit that they are successful, not the school system.

He didn't come out of my belly, but my God, I've made his bones, because I've attended to every meal, and how he sleeps, and the fact that he swims like a fish because I took him to the ocean. I'm so proud of all those things. But he is my biggest pride.---John Lennon

I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong.---John Lennon

We Are One - Fashions for Peace

vharlow - I can say from first hand experience as a teacher for over 20 years, that the particular study you cited is NOT what I have found.

I can't even begin to tote up the number of (unpaid) extracurricular hours I have spent over the years, trying to "catch up" homeschooled children who had transferred to public school. Not only were they woefully behind in scholastics, but they also tended to have a great lack of communication skills with the other kids - though, admittedly, they were very comfortable and at ease around teachers and other adults.

The study you cited notwithstanding, there is a REASON that colleges and universities do not readily admit homeschooled students - and it's certainly not because they have any kind of 'prejudice' against them...they simply don't have the necessary scholastic abilities and the required SAT scores to get them in.

Now, I'm not speaking for every homeschooled student - I actually know one such student who is a very intelligent and well-educated youngster...however, he is being schooled by his mother who is an ex-school teacher with an MA in education. I'm sure there are other good students. But, the majority that I have come across have not been so. (Well, they were good enough STUDENTS - they were disciplined, eager, willing to learn - they simply weren't well EDUCATED.)

This said - Im not judging you - or your abilities - or your children (or, grandchildren, isn't it? I"m merely speaking of the majority of homeschooled students I've encountered professionally.

Tristan,

I would confirm your findings. I did homeschool my children and they returned to public schools at the head of their respective classes, but had I kept them home longer than I had, surely they would have lagged behind, no matter how bright they are.

When a family homeschools their children, and there are so many large families that do, there simply is not enough time in the day to address each one with the academic priorities essential to good education.

And because, it has been in my awareness for being involved in churches and homeschool groups, many of the families are so very involved in church life as well.

In fact, as an example, back in my fundie daze, we would go to church at least four times a week! And once a month there were special "revival" services that contrary to the name revival, nearly killed me!!! LOL
On the revival weeks, we would go to church Wed., Thurs., Fri., Sat, and then twice on Sunday. Or they would run Sun. morning and night, Mon., Tues., and then Wed.!!!

I knew many women who were plum tuckered out from all the responsibilities on them at home, at church, and the frequenting the church that much. These women are the teachers in homeschool!!!

One woman that was my friend, was also putting her kids back in school. But she did not put them in public school, but in a Christian school. She confessed to me how grieved she was that her kids were all being placed in work two years behind their peers.

Also my brother was not very excited when I made the decision to homeschool. He told me that even as he taught remedial math classes, he was always getting the kids that had come out of homeschools.

That is not to discourage anyone from pursuing homeschool as a viable alternative to public or parochial education. But it is to give my honest assessment. And to say that it takes a very singular focus.

And I would say that if someone does it, do it believing and demonstrating you are doing it "for the children" and not "for Jesus" or all the other "Jesus works" will cut into the time and energy that needs to be spent on the children's academics.

OD

I suspect rather strongly that when held to a curriculum, as these kids here are, they would not be behind anyone, and would indeed be ahead.

I have discovered in two homeschool lists of which I am a member, many of the parents are using "unschooling" which may be fine if you NEVER allow a kid to go into the schools. I, on the other hand, being a grandma who might suffer bad health at almost anytime, have not allowed any such leniency because they might have to go back to school. Until this year, they had full curriculums and ATS teachers, transcripts, and grades. This year we needed a custom curriculum because my ADD boy has such a struggle with writing. We've done extra work, and we work all summer too, except when travelling, and next year, it's back to Calvert because getting the kids tested in WV is a hardship since their mom works in VA and I live in VA but she will have to take time off work to get their testing done. They take practice tests regularly so as to know how to test. That also tells me in which areas we need more work.

I'm doing it all, with curriculum and curriculum guides, and frequent tests. There are lots of things available online to help, such as studystack.com where I put study information to prepare for tests, etc. Flash card stuff, and the like.

The whole concept of "unschooling" is NOT something I would want to do. These kids may have to go to school if something happens to me. "Unschooling" may be lots less expensive, but in the long run, working hard at it is better.

We have enough freedom to take an entire day if a concept doesn't become clear, to stop everything, hold the horses, and go over things again and again. You can see that "lightbulb" go off when it all is clear. We have the freedom to stop whatever we are doing and hit a museum, or sing a few songs, or move furniture around. The workshop in the basement is also inviting, with lots of tools.

Frankly, I'm doing it because I love being with these kids. They are fun and they keep me young. It's selfish, but what the heck, they like it.

I totally agree hevusa. However, I must say that if I were a parent, and if I had the time, I would also consider home schooling my kids at least for a while. And I'm atheist. It's just that I find problems with our school systems. Generally, I think they teach people to be obedient workers, not great thinkers. It kind of takes away from the point of education. But I also know that most people who homeschool don't for these reasons, they homeschool for the reasons you presented above.

But, I would much rather send my kid to a great school system rather than home school. Unfortunately our selection of great school systems is dwindling.