Originally Posted by Jefferson

Is it possible to be going the wrong direction, and actually be driving AWAY FROM New York City?

Originally Posted by OhDear

Jefferson I am glad you asked that! Now JayD will give you an answer I am sure.

And Antithesis too for being the one that opened this thread up with his ideas.

And me, I will cos here I am cleaning out closets today and staying logged in for long chunks of time, to take many breaks from sorting through so much stuff. Stuff!

I would say that you can drive in any direction at all, no matter how far you go, you are always already IN New York City.

New York City is the Lord's and the fulnes thereof!

OD

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Was Saddam Hussein still in New York City?

Pol Pot?

Hitler?


Because, for some reason, if they're all there - and people like them - I'm not sure I want to be.

Originally Posted by OhDear

Yup! But they come in shakin' in their boots afraid of the fiery King...

OD

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Actually, I don't think the guys I mentioned are in NYC.



They're in Wisconsin...

Originally Posted by OhDear

Oh my goodness, Jefferson! You are the funny man, aren't ya?

Well it may well be the truth...but per the analogy, Wisconsin is in New York City too!

So while you are eating sour grapes where you are for the fact that they got to be in at all, they be eatin' cheese!!!

OD

P.S. Did you notice and like my new avatar?

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I'm not gonna continue this anyway, 'cause like OhDear I'm pretty busy writing some letters. Besides, it's kind of off topic. I was arguing for religious tolerance, not acceptance of the concept of hell.

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I was at home yesterday, and I came up with a pretty good analogy.

New York City is New York City. Nothing more, nothing less. Whether you get there by train, car, bust, taxi, or boat, it's still the city. You can drive there so many ways: up from New Jersey, south from the suburbs, or west from Long Island. Sure, some roads are more dangerous than others, but as long as you drive safely, you have little reason to worry. And if you stop to get gas or eat, who cares? It doesn't matter as long as you get back on the road when you're done. Any way you go, you're still ending up in New York City.

What I'm trying to say is that there's no one true way to practice religion. In the end, provided you're not overzealous or corrupt and try to twist your beliefs, pretty much each path ultimately requires good actions. Everyone is allowed to deviate a little and differ in their approach, because the results are the same.

Originally Posted by chrisg967

I prefer the analogy of one River, many Wells. I believe there is a book of comparative religions by that name.

But I do see Oh Dear's point of view - the destination is all around us.. we are like fish swimming in water asking "What is water?".. oops, another analogy! Anyway, it is the journey that counts, not the destination.

Originally Posted by OhDear

Well JayD, what I believe is this:

I believe that Jesus is the Savior. Not any part of us is involved in what is given mankind by his work at the cross.

I believe that what we are not talking about fully is the bridge from time to eternity. You say one must believe to be saved. Yes. I say that there is a revelation given, and that we walk in it. Now while in the here and now, we receive that revelation by faith.

You say that, but he doesnt.

Faith is really the same thing as the revelation.

It is a gift.

We need to believe to be "saved" here and now. I know the pain of not believing,
But I also believe very firmly that Jesus effected all that is the Father's will. His plan was not to say only the willing, His will was stated clearly in that Jesus is the Savior of all men. That if he was lifted up(a reference to the cross), all men would be drawn to him, that God was reconciling the world, think of it JayD, the whole damned world! ..he was reconciling all of it to himself in Christ. Jesus did not have a partial triumph. He had a full victory and gets the full reward for what He did.

For us to walk in salvation now we do so by the humility of faith. But someday face to face.

And all will be saved when faith is overwhelmed by eternity's evidence.

I already explained to you that when time gives way to eternity and faith gives way to knowing, that we do all stand in God's presence. Totally immersed in him. We as believing are already there! We are even now, and this I see by faith, hid with Christ in God!

But all will come to be in God. So God is the hell for those who do not walk in revelation and have things that need be purged.

God is a consuming fire.

But God is love. And when death is swallowed up in victory, every thing that ever knew the breath of God's life lives! And lives in Him!

That is what I believe...

If you want to throw Bible verses at me to attempt to dismantle that, I would be very disappointed in you JayD. You have yet to tell me why All would not mean All.
Thats all you had to say, that only parts of the bible are welcome in this conversation. That you don believe in the bible, that is where we are different. I dont believe God failed in sending us his message, you do feel he failed.

I choose the parts of the Bible that set my heart a dancing with hope for everyone.
Where I choose to take in the full message of God through the scripture.
With faith in a God who is love. Though love is sometimes really hard to see if we look with only our limited eyes of time and space.

And it is only for me to make use of that in the Bible that I see that goes outside of, and bigger than time and space...to the Eternal God our Refuge. Lord of ALL!!! Those passages are the ones that bounce between the pages in a book and my heart and know a song as they move between the two.
Well, sure, thats cause you are in him, and he is in you. He has revieled his glory to you. I just dont understand why you only take half of his truth.
The rest of the book is man's progressive revelation of God. If I can't see Christ in a verse, I say it aint divine.
I dont believe God would have sent his word at all, if it was just going to be corupted.

And there may well be verses in time that I have not yet seen Him in that I will, but I can't say that I believe the whole book and anyone who does say that is a liar.
Then you can count me among the "liars" then
The Lord reigns.

OD