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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 02-11-2007, 11:55 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Well I believe there is a higher being,but i am not sure what he/she wants in the long run.Now the question I have is "WHY".
Why does he allow all the guessing to carry on,if he is here with us why can't he just wave his hands up and change the the world for the better? or atleast tell us something, beside playing these games,sometimes i feel he is just playing with us..and sometimes i feel we are all doom.

but god is the one with the power to clear this all up once and for all...so where is he now??? can anyone tell me that?
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:07 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by America first View Post
Well I believe there is a higher being,but i am not sure what he/she wants in the long run.Now the question I have is "WHY".
Why does he allow all the guessing to carry on,if he is here with us why can't he just wave his hands up and change the the world for the better? or atleast tell us something, beside playing these games,sometimes i feel he is just playing with us..and sometimes i feel we are all doom.

but god is the one with the power to clear this all up once and for all...so where is he now??? can anyone tell me that?
If there's one thing I've learned after all my soul-searching, it's that if there is a god he is either intensely misanthropic or completely apathetic in regards to humanity. If he weren't, then his "chosen people" would not have been slaughtered by the millions.
"Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me
Old 02-11-2007, 03:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa View Post
I could not agree more with this idea of honesty you put forth. This is my stance on God as well. Athiests and Christians are on the same immoral level for me since they both claim knowledge about something which cannot be known. For me this equates to lying and I would never do that in regards to an idea like God (I simply respect the theory too much).
I think this is a faulty argument and is ignorant to the concept of atheism. It's my contention that agnosticism, logically, should lead to solipsism and extreme metaphysical uncertainty. Allow me to explain:

The theory that is presented is the existence of a God or Gods, and it is treated scientifically like any theory. That is, atheists see that there is no factual or reasonable evidence to believe in this theory. Therefore it is rejected.

It's equivalent to people telling me that there is an invisible flying unicorn in my garage. They have no evidence to suggest that there really is one in my garage. But likewise, it's utterly impossible for me to prove that there isn't. However, in science, I must deny the proposal, that is I must assume that there isn't a unicorn until someone proves otherwise or presents evidence that would lead us to believe that there is more of a chance of the existence of an invisible flying unicorn.

Taking your argument could logically mean that we can't prove anything, and therefore we shouldn't accept anything. Just because there might be a slight chance of all of existence is a dream (solipsism) and you can't prove otherwise, and therefore all science false, doesn't mean we shouldn't accept science or reality. Nothing is certain and nothing is proved absolutely, but that doesn't mean we should accept nothing as true.

This is why we have a concept called occam's razor.

When theories are presented, it's the theorist's job to prove his/her theory, NOT everyone else's job to disprove the theory.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Last edited by Katczinsky; 02-11-2007 at 03:38 PM.
Old 02-11-2007, 03:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
If there's one thing I've learned after all my soul-searching, it's that if there is a god he is either intensely misanthropic or completely apathetic in regards to humanity. If he weren't, then his "chosen people" would not have been slaughtered by the millions.
Okay, speculation time:

If there was indeed a God, I don't think it would be either of these things. If there is a God then it very most likely wouldn't be defined how man-made institutions define it as. A God would be all-knowing, and all-powerful. An entity of such intangible magnitude would be impossible to offend, and impossible to please. The life of a small insignificant dust particle, as would be perceived to the God, would be completely irrelevant. Not to mention that if the God created both space and time, all events are predetermined or happening at an instant. Maybe the God did intervene? You wouldn't know it if it did.

It'd be quite equivalent to us going out of our way to save one entity of microbial life in the depths of the Indian ocean (actually it'd be worse than that).

A God wouldn't be anywhere near our plane of existence, let alone our plane of consciousness. That's why I think all of these religious perceptions of God is just silly.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Last edited by Katczinsky; 02-12-2007 at 04:44 PM.
Old 02-11-2007, 07:15 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxian View Post
I think you are mistaken about Simon Greenleaf. If I remember correctly, the only thing he did is show that some pieces of the New Testament should be accepted as what they appear to be in a court of law. The only thing he needs to prove to do this is that these documents originated in a place you'd expect to find them, and that there are no signs of forgery. The burden of proving those documents false was placed on the person who objects to them.

These rules for accepting an ancient document into a court are proof of nothing, and they are not scientific. There is not, as I am aware, any evidence that Jesus existed other than the testimony of his disciples.
Wrong, this is a direct quote from Greenleaf,

"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD"

(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).


The testimony of the apostles, all who fled before Christ was crucified, returned and began the Church. His own borther, who did not believe the word he spoke while he was alive, became the head of the Church in Jerusalem. WHY??

In the first century, women were not granted much credibility or viewed as equals of men, yet all four gospels agree and admit that Christ first appeared to women. WHY??

Paul, who converted from Judaism to Christianity and brought to the Gentiles Christianity. WHY???

Paul and Peter died for their belief in Christ as the Messiah and the words he preached. WHY???

See it is that little question that causes all the trouble. WHY??? Why would these things happen if Christ died and was not resurrected? They wouldn't have, yet, they happened.

Greenleaf set out to disprove the gospels account of the resurrection, yet instead, Greenleaf became a Christian.

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-Russell Kirk-
Old 02-11-2007, 07:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
... as well as the exact opposite
What has been scientifically disproven?? Please tell us.

dmk
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:40 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Well is the soul enough to prove that there is a god,and yes i have one...
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL THAT DEFENDS HER..
Old 02-12-2007, 04:32 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by America first View Post
Well is the soul enough to prove that there is a god,and yes i have one...
That's a bit doubtful. If anything we have consciousness, which is too often mistaken for a soul.

Exactly how did Greenleaf come to this conclusion anyway?
"Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me
Old 02-12-2007, 04:35 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
I think this is a faulty argument and is ignorant to the concept of atheism. It's my contention that agnosticism, logically, should lead to solipsism and extreme metaphysical uncertainty. Allow me to explain:

The theory that is presented is the existence of a God or Gods, and it is treated scientifically like any theory. That is, atheists see that there is no factual or reasonable evidence to believe in this theory. Therefore it is rejected.

It's equivalent to people telling me that there is an invisible flying unicorn in my garage. They have no evidence to suggest that there really is one in my garage. But likewise, it's utterly impossible for me to prove that there isn't. However, in science, I must deny the proposal, that is I must assume that there isn't a unicorn until someone proves otherwise or presents evidence that would lead us to believe that there is more of a chance of the existence of an invisible flying unicorn.

Taking your argument could logically mean that we can't prove anything, and therefore we shouldn't accept anything. Just because there might be a slight chance of all of existence is a dream (solipsism) and you can't prove otherwise, and therefore all science false, doesn't mean we shouldn't accept science or reality. Nothing is certain and nothing is proved absolutely, but that doesn't mean we should accept nothing as true.

This is why we have a concept called occam's razor.

When theories are presented, it's the theorist's job to prove his/her theory, NOT everyone else's job to disprove the theory.
That's what i mean by completely apathetic.
"Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me
Old 02-17-2007, 11:39 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
That's a bit doubtful. If anything we have consciousness, which is too often mistaken for a soul.

Exactly how did Greenleaf come to this conclusion anyway?
Jr , you have no idea at what the hell you even talking about. talk that crap to your liberal friends, i am sure they will love it.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL THAT DEFENDS HER..
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