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Religion What is your take on religion? Do you base your thoughts in life according to your religion? Do you feel that religion should be kept out of Government and Politics?

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Old 03-24-2007, 06:22 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
I really haven't done anything to be damned to hell in life nor do I plan on doing anything that well. Why you have to walk around with the sin monkey on your back is your choice. I'm going to live free and happy.
I feel sorry for anybody who does not believe, for the bible carries good news: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16


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Old 03-24-2007, 09:23 AM   #42 (permalink)
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"How can you be so sure your will lines up with his will?" Preacherman
If we take the single preliminary step of excluding the absolutely absurd (except for the existence of the Christian trinity), then it's a logical certitude.

IF god is an all powerful, omniscient deity, and if he designed us, then god knows what I'm going to do before I do. And if god is all powerful, then I do what I do before I know what I will do, because of the way god made me. For everything in the universe is his creation (according to Christians).
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"You dont believe you have free will?" Preacherman
I doubt belief is the issue here.
I'm aware of the logical contradiction. First of all:

"No thought or action can be both preordained and an act of free will at the same time." tronport

In addition, here's what Schopenhauer had to say about it:
A man can surely do what he wills to do, but cannot determine what he wills. - Schopenhauer
So the notion of "free will" is simply logically inconsistent with an omniscient, omnipotent Creator deity.
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"That all your actions are divinly guided?" Preacherman
"Guided"? It's really more certain than that. Skeptics might call it dictated. Others might call it "pre-determined".
Either way, it's not even my idea. It's a premise of Christianity. god knows all, determines all, and has full control over all; and has had from femtosecond numero uno.
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"I feel sorry for anybody who does not believe ..." Nr
The more logical lament is for those that do; for they resign their very precious gift of reason, for an absolutely unproven, and indeed factually unsubstantiated myth.
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"The Church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church." Ferdinand Magellan
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"... for the bible carries good news: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16 " Nr
The Lord so loved mankind that he gave him life, and all creation. But these "gifts" have strings attached. In addition to coerced life-long frequent groveling adulation and fear of eternal torment, Lord Jesus also wants a 10% cut. They call it a "tithe".
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"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." Oscar Wilde
Old 03-26-2007, 02:26 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Preacherman View Post

We are ALL sinners. We are all slaves to sin until the day we die. Christains, Muslims, Jews, everyone. All in need of a salvation.
Well Preacher forget everything else. If there is one aspect of christianity i completely disagree with it is that above.

How can god have made man in his image and that image still be evil?

Of all the marketing tools ever employed on mankind, the most successful is that one is the one where you convince the population that don't actually deserve the product (salvation), but through the benevolence of the church and its founder (christ) even us filthy humans may be granted a pardon.

I think this message has some inherent flaws in it that ultimately make it detrimental to mankind.

If you state that man is by his basic nature evil, there is absolutely no reason for anybody to take responsibility for their actions. If they are evil, they can claim to fight their natures all their lives, yet they can pass off their lacking success in this regard as a "basic function of their inherent nature".

For religion to have a positive influence on the human psyche one must believe that mankind is inherently "good". If mankind is inherently "good" then religion will seek to develop the inherent good potential of man, RATHER than demand subservience, submission and stasis based on the "evil" nature of man.

Religious clergies have always been averse to progress and development simply because they have an inherent belief that all progress is the manifestation of mankind's "evil" that will invariably lead mankind to the abyss.

To state that Man is by nature evil is to grossly sell the human race short. Our cognitive ability, our ability perceive problems and find solutions is what has allowed us to flourish as a race on this planet. To term that evil is to deny our many thousand years of evolution from primitive hunter gatherers to today's advanced societies (with endemic and primitive problems no doubt) with art, philosophy, literature, music evolving and expanding our perceptions.

As you may have understood i believe that concept of original sin is hogwash. It is a concept promulgated by a clergy that cement their importance in society by convincing populations that any and all actions taken without church sanction or support invariably leads to damnation on account of our base and evil natures.

This marketing ploy is currently being slowly but surely implemented in the "muslim" world also. Mullahs are cementing their positions by terming all action taken without their consent, analysis, support is WRONGand MUST be done from a "sharia" paltform in order to gain the Almighty's blessing.

Every man is made in the image of god. God is GOOD. Therefore (whether you like it or not, YOU are inherently good and so is everybody else ont his planet.

HOWEVER due to lacking knowledge, wilful stagnation, misunderstanding, and denial, we have succeeded in making this planet a crappier place to live. But that is simply because mankind knows no better. Let's take Global Warming. We should have acknowledged the signs earlier no doubt. But that fact is that mankind has never been through sucha a process before, and therefore all these mistakes are novice mistakes. We shall overcome (as we always have - even though we are supposed to be "evil").
Love for all, Hatred for none
Old 03-26-2007, 09:34 AM   #44 (permalink)
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"How can god have made man in his image and that image still be evil?" hk
One, and only one way hk.
god is evil.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." Oscar Wilde
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