Defending the Truth

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

Well if we consider that the teachers are the ones responsible for the educating of our children, and that the Teacher's Unions overwhelmingly support the Democrats, then by postulating we can say that it is the Democrats who want the people to be stupid can we not????

dmk

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

Well if we consider that the teachers are the ones responsible for the educating of our children, and that the Teacher's Unions overwhelmingly support the Democrats, then by postulating we can say that it is the Democrats who want the people to be stupid can we not????

dmk

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

People should send their kids to school. Teachers are responsible for teaching them well in school. I'm not a parent, but I know that parents are the ones responsible for the educating of thier children.

In my opinion, if you send your kid to school and he or she ends up stupid, and you blame their teachers...you're a terrible parent. Or you are stupid yourself and should not be wholly surprised that your offspring have ended up likewise.

Originally Posted by Jefferson

You WILL change your tune when...

1. You actually become a parent.
2. Your kid comes home from school, having been spoon-fed some idiotic tripe that runs completely contrary to everything you hold near and dear.
3. You try to engage your school "machine" in a meaningful dialogue about the matter of parental rights, choice and prior notificiation before individual teachers take it upon themselves to go on political rants.



Will you want your kids to be in the classroom with a teacher who constantly praises Rush Limbaugh, and regurgitates his nonsense in class? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

I intend to provide to my children what my parents gave me. The most upset my parents ever got was about an unqualified teacher I had for English in 6th and 7th grade. He still had a position at the school when I was in my last year, but had already stopped teaching alltogether. My dad used to hold that position at the same school and after not teaching for several years, he is once again a 7th grade English teacher at a different school. As anybody in their own field, he knows and knew what he was talking about. I suppose I WILL change my tune if those things happen...unfortunately there is little guarantee they will happen.

I'm curious for details into what you are talking about. What exactly spurred you to get in a political argument with one of you child's teachers? Where did you live at the time?

I still don't see how any of those circumstances, as unfortunate as they are, could ever give creedence to the idea that the parents are not ultimately the most responsible. I'm not saying it is entirely under control. Parents can't just blame teachers constantly for their kids being stupid.

Originally Posted by Jefferson

I have never gotten into a political argument with one of my kids' teachers. That was an example.

The truth is that we have a GREAT (albeit, not perfect) public school system where I live. And part of the reason it has worked so well for my family is that I have been assertively proactive in my involvement in the school. Not as a critic, but as a supporter who has earned the RIGHT to be heard when he has a critical statement to make.

I am personal friends with almost every one of my kids' teachers (we have two kids who've graduated and one in high school). I'm personal friends (partly due to professional reasons) with all the school principals & superintendent. I've had long, difficult, productive and good personal conversations with ALL of them.

I KNOW that the best way to influence your public school system for the better, is to be personally involved - as friends first - with the people. Unfortunately, many public school systems are not open to such parental involvement.

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

That certainly seems like it would be true. Just to clarify things then, since I agree with you here, did the 1, 2, and 3 from the other post not happen to you? Were those hypothetical situations or did those things actually happen to you?

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Here's my post:

Number 2 has happened to me with 2 teachers. But here's the deal:

The first teacher - a guy - really is a raging liberal, and is actually pretty angry and aggressive about it. But he's a GREAT teacher, and part of what he's doing is intentionally provoking the kids, trying to get responses and discussion. He teaches Civics. Our oldest son is quieter, and so he basically responded by rolling his eyes, quietly laughing, and writing papers telling the teacher he was full of crap, and why. Our second son, who is loud and argumentative, would pipe up and get in hour-long debates with the guy in class. At one point, the teacher yelled, "You can shut up and go to hell!" at my second son (which basically meant, to my son, that he had won the debate). BUT THE TEACHER LOVED IT! Both of our sons got an A in his class, purely because they EARNED it.

I respect that teacher a great deal - and I really don't care what his political ideology is! He's open to arguing and debating, which is a foundation of democracy, and is a big part of good teaching.

The second teacher - a woman - is also a raging liberal. In addition, she's an unhappy man-hater. She teaches in the area of psychology. Ironically, I've had her as a client in marriage counseling (no, this is not a breach of confidentiality). She became so angry with me, in counseling, that she won't come see me anymore. But, 5 years later, she and her husband are still married, so her anger toward me is perfectly fine.
So she teaches a class entitled, "Women's Issues". In a hilarious twist of irony, my second son - the mouthy one - ended up being the only guy in that class. Needless to say, he made the most of it. When all the girls would "get going" & crying, he'd lean forward and, with a concerned look, say stuff like, "It's okay. Let it out. Own the hurt!" They appreciated that.
He stood up to her, argued with her, and at times she was furious at him. But he earned good grade, and she even came to his graduation reception. So how bad could it be?

I really don't respect this woman as a person, but I do respect the fact that she would tolerate argument and intelligent debate in the classroom.


So those are my personal anecdotes. A couple of them. As I said earlier, I have a great relationship with our public schools. I know all the prinicipals & superintendent personally, but it's because I've lived here for nearly 20 years, and have assertively pursued building good relationships with them.

Unfortunately, I know (by listening to other people) that a LOT of public schools do not operate that way.

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

People should send their kids to school. Teachers are responsible for teaching them well in school. I'm not a parent, but I know that parents are the ones responsible for the educating of thier children.

In my opinion, if you send your kid to school and he or she ends up stupid, and you blame their teachers...you're a terrible parent. Or you are stupid yourself and should not be wholly surprised that your offspring have ended up likewise.